Lift for driving, towing and wheeling

[Tired Iron]

I am new to 4x4ing, i have a stock '93 XLT with 190k. it has been a good reliable vehicle for me for the last 75k miles. I love driving it, i want to continue to drive it, Can some one recomend how much lift and what I should look for. i want to do trails and snow wheeling, I stay away from the mudpits. i also use it to drag my trailer around, about 5000Lbs, single axle, truck box trailer(not while wheeling). 31-33'' tires seem appropriate to me. i also like to run snow chains in the mountians. I need clearance for the heavy "real" chains and clearance for deeper snow. i have been looking around the forum quite a bit and have seen nothing about tire sizing with snow chains. I think 3'' would be about right with 32's. What lift manufacturer should I look for and more importantly who should I stay away from. I think the front is too soft and the back end is sagging too, I want to stiffen it some. I will build my own bumpers and a roof rack and jerry can racks so it will gain weight. i love doing the metal fab work myself. Is the solid front axle idea something I should consider for a driver vehicle?

I know this a alot of info, but i don't want to make an uninformed decision. Any suggestions for the lift and tires would be greatly appreciated, thanks.

 

[ranger-93]

Just thinking about I personally would probably look at 4'' suspenion or maybe a 2-3'' with a body lift unless you want all suspension. 33's sound about right and if you go with the 2-3'' and the tires you choose dont fit with chains you can do a body lift. Also if you think the suspension is soft or sags maybe you could look into the rancho adjustable shocks. Dont know what lifts to stay away from but I have a 6'' skyjacker and havent had any problems over the past two years with it.

 

[Dannyboy]

5k trailer! wow, thats a lot of weight for these trucks! Are you sure it's that heavy for a single axle? I had a 94 that was my wheeler and also towed my small 17 foot sea ray around back in the day that maybe weighed in a 3,000 lbs. I was young and wanted a monster so it had a 6" suspension lift, 3" body lift and 35" tires with 4.56 gears.



The answer to this question is all about your budget. If you tow and want it reliable it's going to need gears and a BIG tranny cooler

 

[Albino 94LTD]

Many answers

Your questions have many answers.

There are many trails you can 'wheel' while still stock here in Washington.

Heck you can even run the Naches Trail with a little undercarriage rubbing.

Here in Western Wa. we have mild to wild rigs for examples.

Search for these;
rickey8587
JrGaylor (used to have a 91 Eddie and spent a lot of time at Evans Creek)
DiffWhackDaddy
Arsoul
Whitetrashfab
Spdrcer34
Paul
PainterKen

From what you've described so far, you're probably thinking about mods in line with Paul and me.

We both have about 5-6" lift but get there different ways, still run the TTB front and 33's.

Like Dannyboy said, it's all about how much you want to spend.

If you go bigger tire than 31's and still want to tow something that heavy,you MUST regear.

 

[Tired Iron]

Yes, I know it way over the leagal limit, i haul firewood from the woods to my grammas house. I get a cord stacked in the trailer. There is also the possibility of getting a fullsize truck or a flatbed truck to relieve the X of wood hauling duty. But i still don't want a monster truck. I still want to be able to afford fuel. How much do the bigger lifts and tires affect fuel economy? As it is i burn about a half tank for a romp in the hills in the snow for a day. My buddy that I wheel with has a J#%p cherokee stock with 3'' lift and 31's. I love how it goes through stuff but i will not buy something that i need to have a surgical procedure to get in and out of. I'm too tall. With that said, I don't need to go much more extreme than his truck. It's not much of a pissin' contest between me and him, we just get out there.

 

[Albino 94LTD]

Bigger tires lift everything (read the TTB beam and rear pumpkin and thoose stupid lower shcok mounts)

You can run 31's with no lift but it would be better with a little from F150 coil spring seats and extended shackles on back. That's about a $100 lift but you'll need an alignment so, less that $200 total.

What is your gear ratio? (axel code on the drivers door).

For me. every 2" of lift cost me about .5 mpg. I have since regeared and don't have good fuel economy numbers but I think I'm about 18.5 hwy.

Mixed use is netting about 15-16.

 

[Scotty J.]

3" body lift with 33" tires is plenty to hit the trails. My vehicle is a daily driver but handles the trails very well. I don't go full tilt boogie or anything like that, but we have fun. But, I don't tow anything with it.

Here's a before and after pic of mine with just 3" lift and 33" tires. Yeah I know, it's a Ranger, but you get the idea LOL.

Before Lift:

After 3" Body Lift and 33" BFG TAs:

A couple of trail movies:
Getting Wet
Climbing a Few Hills

Hope this helps.

 

[Tired Iron]

what about tire width, I like the appearance of tall narrow tires. Do they present less clearance problems with snow chains. Albino, I saw you have some snow pictures, do you ever use chains- have you needed them? I used to have a dakota with stock 31's I really needed the chains up front. I know they get exponentially more expensive for the bigger tires.

 

[Albino 94LTD]

what about tire width, I like the appearance of tall narrow tires. Do they present less clearance problems with snow chains. Albino, I saw you have some snow pictures, do you ever use chains- have you needed them? I used to have a dakota with stock 31's I really needed the chains up front. I know they get exponentially more expensive for the bigger tires.

The pic I posted in your other thread was from 2 weeks ago up off SR410. The snow was 2-3ft deep. No chains on that run, air pressure was 9psi. I broke trail and Rick (the other white X) was on stock 29" tires but he has 1.5" coil lift and shackles in the rear. He had a hard time in a couple spots until he aired down to 10psi.

I can run chains with 31's but the 33's without chains, rub a little when turning and flexing so chains would tear it up. The only time I would run chains is on packed roads in certain types of snow. I'm trying to think if it's when it starts to get warm and there is a layer of water on top.

Narrow tires won't 'float' well. For true snow wheeling drop the air pressure down to less that 10psi so they pack the snow under the center of the tire. High pressure and narrow tires will push the snow out and the tire will dig down when you really want to float on top.

Kind of hard to explain but it works. There are some more pictures here; http://www.pnwadventures.com/forum/completed-trips/17847-snow-run-lonesome-lake-huckleberry-ridge-loop-nov-14-2009-a.html

 

[joecrna]

I run 2" TT and 3" rear lift with custom leaf springs. 31" BFG's fit my 2nd gen fine with chains (V-bar reinforced). I also do moderate off-roading, daily street use and tow (very heavy). I have several custom mods to allow this triple threat. If I go full lock with the chains on, they hit the anti-roll bar. Not tons of clearence with the body, so I've got to install them well tightened.

As for lift, I think you would be fine with 33" tires and a suspension lift to match. Any higher and sway will be a real problem with that much weight behind you. As mentioned before, anything is possible if you're willing to spend enough. Remember, being able to tow a given wieght a short distance at low speeds is completly different than towing it all day at highway speeds.

 

[ricky8587]

Did mine on the low budget side of things. 1 1/2" Lift Rough Country fronts springs which ended up giving me almost 2". 2" shackle lift in the back. 31" KM2's. I can and have run a *majority* of the WA trails. In deep snow I am just fine with Albino 94LTD plowing the way. :notworthy

 

[joecrna]

Ricky, your set-up looks like it would provide just barely enough room for chains. Much like mine. Your first gen does have a slightly different front fender cutout shape than my 3rd gen. Your photo should give tire iron a really good idea though.

 

[Freshmeat]

I would recommend against the body lift for snow use- more than just tire clearance you'll want ground clearance. I'd say do a complete Skyjacker 4" kit with rear springs and get a good set of 33x12.50s. Possibly all-terrains instead of mud tires, since they'd "float" instead of dig like a mud terrain would do.

Regear to 4.56, throw a lunchbox locker in the front (would likely negate the need for chains) and love your Ex all over again.

 

[Tired Iron]

What's a lunchbox locker? Is that like a lincoln locker, welded spool. I don't think lincoln locker is a good idea although it is my favorite price- free. All these references to the "cheap" lifts are getting me a little excited, like i could get this going in a couple weeks. Should i hold out and get the good full skyjacker setup, I thought the extended coils and quick alignment were kinda only for mall crusing. I am independantly poor, I was gonna sell one of my old tractors to finance the lift. Do any of you local (washington) guys know of a used lift available... Christmas is coming but my wife didn't really want anything anyway.

 

[Albino 94LTD]

What's a lunchbox locker? Is that like a lincoln locker, welded spool. I don't think lincoln locker is a good idea although it is my favorite price- free.

Lunchbox locker is like this
http://www.rrorc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27870 but if you're towing or doing a lot of freeway running, it will take some getting used to if you put it in the rear. I just had an Aussie installed in the rear a month ago. Great traction, but a little torque steer when on then off the throttle. We'll see how it does on snow packed roads. I'm a little nervous

All these references to the "cheap" lifts are getting me a little excited,

Good! Git Er Dun!!!

like i could get this going in a couple weeks. Should i hold out and get the good full skyjacker setup, I thought the extended coils and quick alignment were kinda only for mall crusing. I am independantly poor, I was gonna sell one of my old tractors to finance the lift. Do any of you local (washington) guys know of a used lift available... Christmas is coming but my wife didn't really want anything anyway.

If you go 4", your stock tires will look REALLY small so there's another $400-$800 for a set of tires And your wife DOES want something, it's up to you to figure it out

Keep your eyes open, lifts come up for sale all the time. I'll keep an eye out for them too.

 

[ricky8587]

Check Out This Link .......

For what we were up to this weekend.

http://www.pnwadventures.com/forum/completed-trips/18037-snow-play-snoqualmie-pass-easton-11-28-2009-a.html

 

[Albino 94LTD]

31-33'' tires seem appropriate to me. .

http://seattle.craigslist.org/tac/pts/1489064999.html

 

[Albino 94LTD]

http://seattle.craigslist.org/see/pts/1489219893.html

 

[rhauf]

Well i suppose i'll throw in my 2 cents here too..

disclaimer: the fallowing is my opinion only so if you disagree just ignore me

in my opinion, the most common mistake people make with 4x4 vehicles is running too large of a tire. the tire should clear (not rub) at any angle with the suspension bottomed out (which, by the way puts the tire in the same location relative to wheel-well no matter how much suspension lift you have)

my '93 xlt (just like yours) is stock suspension with 31" x 10.5" tires (pic below) and the tires will rub very very slightly on occasion when it is fully articulated and the wheel is turned one way or the other. if i ran chains, i'm sure they would catch as they would be adding another 3/4 inch or so to the tire height (and width) on each side. Therefore, i would recommend you do not exceed 31" tires.

now about the lift. remember the more you lift a truck the less control it will have on the trailer. for example, i have two broncos, one with a 4" lift and 35's, and the other stock with 31's. there is no comparison towing, the lifted one wants to fishtail and whip at 55mph, the other one is smooth and solid up to 70mph pulling the same load (tandem flatbed with offroad vehicle on it) for snow, lift doesn't gain you much since you're axles dragging are you're main concern, and they will stay at the same height.

as for a body lift, this gains you nothing except a higher center of gravity and some people think it looks cool, it does move you're fender up a little higher, which sometimes helps reduce tire rubbing, but in a first gen X the front and back of the wheel well are where the rubbing will happen, and moving the wheel well up a couple inches wont help that much.

a gear-down would probably be a good idea since you do a lot of towing, it'll tow easier, and it'll take a lot of strain off you're transmission. also be sure you have a good trans cooler (and stay out of OD for towing)

also, since you do a lot of towing (and the rear ends of these explorers often sag) add-a-leafs would probably be a good idea, they're cheap, they'll raise you're rear end an inch or so, and they'll increase you're tow capacity/max tongue weight etc.

here's a pic of my '93 xlt on 31" BFG's with stock height.. notice the rear sags a little here, i would probably also benefit from some new rear springs, or add-a-leafs.

from what you do, i don't think you'd benefit much from a lift, or large tires (wider tires don't help for icy conditions any either) i'd recommend gear down, better shocks, new rear springs (or add-a-leafs) and 31" tires.

 

[Koga]

Bigger tires lift everything (read the TTB beam and rear pumpkin and thoose stupid lower shcok mounts)

You can run 31's with no lift but it would be better with a little from F150 coil spring seats and extended shackles on back. That's about a $100 lift but you'll need an alignment so, less that $200 total.

What is your gear ratio? (axel code on the drivers door).

For me. every 2" of lift cost me about .5 mpg. I have since regeared and don't have good fuel economy numbers but I think I'm about 18.5 hwy.

Mixed use is netting about 15-16.