looking to lift...cheaply...options?

[Maniak]

You want to match the gears to the tire size and to what you want to do with it..

IMHO, 3.73 with stock sized tires seems to be a good ratio for around town and wheeling without sacrificing your highway usage. If you are not towing and spend most of your time around 75mph you will want a numerically lower (higher) ratio. More like a 3.55. On flat ground the 3.27 with stock tires was ok, but you see a hill and you slow down so I wouldn't recommend that.

Let's say you think the 3.73 with stock tires is right for you.. Now figure how much bigger your new tires will be. Just for sake of a number, let's say 32" tires...

So, a 32" tire is really more like 31.5" tall.. and stock (235x75r15) is 29" tall so the the 32" tire is about 8% taller. That means to keep all things equal you need a gear ratio that is about 8% numerically higher which would be 4.05 which doesn't exist. The next closest would be 4.10..

So, with a 4.10:1 gear ratio and around 32" tall tire you would be about the same gear ratio as you were with stock tires and 3.73:1 gears.

One extra thing to think of.. Bigger tires weigh more, therefore as you go up you not only need to change the gears due to increased rotational diameter of the tire but due to the weight of the tire..

hopefully all that rambling helps make some sense of this.

~Mark

 

[5spdman]

IMHO, 3.73 with stock sized tires seems to be a good ratio for around town and wheeling without sacrificing your highway usage. If you are not towing and spend most of your time around 75mph you will want a numerically lower (higher) ratio. More like a 3.55.

well i have both of those.....

hopefully all that rambling helps make some sense of this.

no no, that makes a lot of sense....i think....more sense than i would have ever made of it anyway....

so what you're saying is basically, in a nutshell, the higher ratio (numerically lower) will lack in power, but benefit in fuel economy, while a lower ratio (numerically higher) will make up for strength and power, but will lack in fuel economy....correct? i'd like to go 31's, but would like to still have some fuel economy, especially since where i live is at least an hour from anywhere (should still have my 92 escort out here, but that needs some tranny work and is another story for another forum).......so if i were to go with 31" tires, could i stay with a 3.73 ratio or would i want to go for the 4:10?

also, the ratios are different between my 91 and 93, and the tags also say i have different axles between the two trucks altogether (i think...and by the looks of the axles, they are in fact different)....the 91 xlt is 3.55:1 ratio and the door sticker says 45 for the axle and the axle looks beefy, while the 93 sport has a 3.73:1 ratio and sticker says D4 for the axle and the axle looks kinda wimpy.....this is also where i get confused...would i be able to switch the diffs (both front and rear) from one axle to the other or no? i'm assuming D4 means DANA 40 and 45 means DANA 45, so i'm guessing i can't....(this will be the first time i've really done any axle work......)

 

[Maniak]

D4 means you have a 3.37 WITH LIMITED SLIP in the rear.. (The clutches are probably toast by now, but they aren't that hard to change"

the 45 means you have a 3.55 gear ratio (open diff).

Where you get that info.. http://www.explorerforum.com/ntrprize/Axle.htm

The rear axle on both will be a Ford 8.8 axle BUT the leaf spring on the sport is probably a monoleaf composite spring instead of the multi leaf the 4 door has.

The front will be a Dana 35 TTB axle on both vehicles.

Can you get a picture of what looks different between the 2 vehicles as far as the axle goes? I can't figure what your seeing that looks different..

Also,

so what you're saying is basically, in a nutshell, the higher ratio (numerically lower) will lack in power, but benefit in fuel economy, while a lower ratio (numerically higher) will make up for strength and power, but will lack in fuel economy....correct?

This is correct, to a point.. If you go too tall on you gear ratio (numerically low) you can get worse mileage because you can't get enough torque from the motor to keep moving forward AND you won't be in the power band... This is why I said if you have 3.27 gears and you see a hill you will slow down.. That isn't "much" of an exaggeration...

So, since you aren't going to be rock crawling and will be on the highway, I'd say stick with the 3.73 gears.. The 31" tire is only about 1.5" taller (5%) and really wouldn't be worth going to 4.10 gears now..

~Mark

 

[Koga]

I know I don't have pics up but I wanted to throw some cents in there. Since your gonna check your front diff you should check the radius arm bushings. I did when I d&r'd my front diff and found mine needed replaced in a bad way including the r.a. braket and my 91 Eddie Bauer 33"x12. 50 r 15 with 4" of lift I went 2" spacers in front and longer homemade shackles in real with 2" body lift. My whole lift was Bout 35$.

 

[5spdman]

D4 means you have a 3.37 WITH LIMITED SLIP in the rear.. (The clutches are probably toast by now, but they aren't that hard to change"

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Can you get a picture of what looks different between the 2 vehicles as far as the axle goes? I can't figure what your seeing that looks different..

i'm going to assume the 3.37 was a typo.....here's pics of the door stickers and their front axle for the 91 and 93 respectively:

i'll get some pictures of the rear axles tomorrow...it's mainly just the housing of each that looks different......

Since your gonna check your front diff you should check the radius arm bushings.

way ahead of ya...RA bushings on the 93 were replaced 1.5 years ago and the bushings on the 91 were replaced not even a week ago

 

[Koga]

It was oh so fun and a learning experience

 

[5spdman]

Can you get a picture of what looks different between the 2 vehicles as far as the axle goes? I can't figure what your seeing that looks different..

after taking pics (in a sand storm mind you) just an hour ago, i can't figure out what i was seeing that was different either......other than the fact that the 91's axle was missing all the rust and the weight they attach to it that the 93's axle had, they are the same...i think what it might have been was that i could see the thick bottom of the diff housing more on the 91 as the diff cover sits a little higher than on the 93........but yes they are the same...

 

[5spdman]

when i get some time probably in the next few weeks, i'm gonna swap the diffs from the sport (3.73) to the xlt.......

that being said, back to the issue at hand: the LIFT!!

i believe i've made up my mind, at this point, that i'll be going with a 4" lift....2" coils and 2" spacers in the front and add-a-leaf with 2" shackles in the back....unless there are easier, better, cheaper potions...................

i've gotten some info on the spacers and shackles; either f150 spacers or make my own out of some dock washers and warrior or custom fabed shackles, but the info i DON'T have is what to get the coils and leaf packs from.....

i stopped into NAPA today and told the guy what i was planning on doing....i think i had read somewhere on here to use coils from a 76 bronco, so i asked the guy if we could do a size comparison....while the bronco coils WILL give me a 2.5" lift because they are a taller spring (which would make fabricating only 1.5" spacers and keeping them in place on the stud easier) and because they are a little stiffer, the ID of the coils is 4", where the explorer coils have a 3" ID (if i remember him saying correctly).....

should i:
A. replace the perch
B. customize it to accept and hold 4" ID coils
C. "lower" the existing perch to where i would only have to add the spacers and leave the coils i have or
D. is there another vehicle i can get springs from?

(i'm hoping the answer wil be D, as while i'm not the biggest "eco-driven" guy, why always use brand new parts when there are perfectly good parts waiting to be used in scrap yards?!?)

and the leafs....i think i saw somewhere mid-90's f150 leafs? i'm leaning this way as, while an SOA conversion WOULD give me lift and (as far as i can tell) would be a little cheaper in the long run, it would also put me past the 4" mark leaving the vehicle leaning forward (albeit not by much, but i prefer some conformity)

any ideas or links to threads on what coils and leaf packs i could pull from junkers to make this cheaper?

 

[Maniak]

i believe i've made up my mind, at this point, that i'll be going with a 4" lift....2" coils and 2" spacers in the front and add-a-leaf with 2" shackles in the back....unless there are easier, better, cheaper potions...................

You won't be able to align with this combo...

You can lift the front 2" (via suspension) before you NEED some kind of drop brackets. You can only adjust the Camber so far with Camber Cams.

You would need drop brackets for the Axle pivots at least BUT you really should (just short of "need") have Radius Arm drop brackets too or you will have very little caster. You ever see a shopping card front wheel wobble.. Well, that is what happens when you don't have enough (or the wrong kind) of caster..

So, time to re-think the plan..

If you want 4" or so, you will either need to do a combo of a body lift and suspension lift OR get a lift kit that has drop brackets...

Also, For the front, there is no real spring perch on the lower mount and modifying the upper mount will be a pain.

The SOA will give you 5.5" or more of lift and you really should weld the perches on (there are kits to allow you not to do that, but I don't like them).

For the smaller tire size you are going to run (31") I'd start with the spacers/AAL combo and go from there.. That will be < $200 total.

To go bigger....
IMHO, the best option would be to get a real 4" lift kit, OR a James Duff 2.5" lift kit and add shackles (it comes with AAL) and f-150 spacers..

Next would be the 2" lift via spacers or springs up front with AAL (or War-153 shackles) and a 2" body lift..

~Mark

 

[5spdman]

You won't be able to align with this combo...

You can lift the front 2" (via suspension) before you NEED some kind of drop brackets. You can only adjust the Camber so far with Camber Cams.

You would need drop brackets for the Axle pivots at least BUT you really should (just short of "need") have Radius Arm drop brackets too or you will have very little caster. You ever see a shopping card front wheel wobble.. Well, that is what happens when you don't have enough (or the wrong kind) of caster..

So, time to re-think the plan..

see, that's what i thought! picturing it and having the truck on jack stands around that height, the front just looked/seemed wrong, and that there would be no way to adjust the camber that much by only replacing the bushings, but someone had just told me that it would work.....can't remember now who it was though........

If you want 4" or so, you will either need to do a combo of a body lift and suspension lift OR get a lift kit that has drop brackets...

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For the smaller tire size you are going to run (31") I'd start with the spacers/AAL combo and go from there.. That will be < $200 total.

well i have NEVER been a fan of body lifts...so the suggestion here is start with a 2" lift and 31's, and build more if desired in the future........but IF i'm dead set (not sure anymore) on starting with a 4" lift, what if, and i'm sure it's not suggested but might have been done before, i just have drop brackets fabricated myself? i haven't heard ANY feedback on that idea since i first brought it up, but i do have the time and resources to do so, just not the money to go out and purchase a big kit like that...

 

[Maniak]

see, that's what i thought! picturing it and having the truck on jack stands around that height, the front just looked/seemed wrong, and that there would be no way to adjust the camber that much by only replacing the bushings, but someone had just told me that it would work.....can't remember now who it was though........

You have the right idea there.. The only way to make that work is to adjust the camber some other way, like using a cut/turned beam (what I have).. That allows you to use the stock pivot brackets with 4"+ of lift. . But you don't want to get into that yet..

well i have NEVER been a fan of body lifts...so the suggestion here is start with a 2" lift and 31's, and build more if desired in the future........but IF i'm dead set (not sure anymore) on starting with a 4" lift, what if, and i'm sure it's not suggested but might have been done before, i just have drop brackets fabricated myself? i haven't heard ANY feedback on that idea since i first brought it up, but i do have the time and resources to do so, just not the money to go out and purchase a big kit like that...

It is possible to make your own brackets, but I doubt it would be worth it. You can find used brackets for a good price and if you make your own you have to make sure it is right since your life will be depending on these parts..


Now that I think of it.. I'm pretty sure I still have a set of 4"-6" lift brackets in the back of the shed. I'll try to dig them out this weekend and I'll make you a smoking deal on them.. They are black (not duff) and IIRC I have the RA and the axle pivot brackets.. I won't have the springs or anything else for the lift (I'm already using the springs since I broke my last set of coil springs) but this will be a good start.

~Mark

 

[5spdman]

that would be great!! if you end up finding them, PM me and we'll get something sorted out!

 

[Maniak]

I found 3 out of the 4 brackets so far.. Things are worse off in the shed than I thought..

I had 2 shelves collapse with the weight of parts on it... one I knew was bent from having 3 sets of heads on there.. apparently it was weaker than I thought. And another one collapsed which had my spare axle shafts, intake parts etc...

Once I dig some crap out to get farther back I'm sure I'll find the 4th part under the stuff that came off the shelves.

~Mark

 

[5spdman]

great!! to the finding of the brackets that is......bummer about the shelves, can honestly say i've been there before and it's no fun...well, in a way it is; sometimes you find things you forgot you had!!

 

[Koga]

It sounds pretty close to the lift I went with 2" spacers in front 3/8" thick flat steel for the shackle lift and a 2" body lift I am running 33" 12.50 r 15 wild country txr with a little rub from turning to tight the only thing I don't like so far is I might need a steering stabilizer because it pulls a bit on the road. But so far I like it only takin it playing in the mud once went through something meant for 35's in 2wd. Oh don't forget longer shocks and don't go through fastenal for your body mount bolts three truck and they still didn't get it right go to boardroom.com they are cheaper but I ordered them a hair to thick so im gonna have to tap em

 

[5spdman]

sounds nice, still not up on BLs though lol

alright, still scouring the internet/NAPA catalog to find a spring that has around a 2" taller ride height and whatnot that would work on the xlt....anyone have suggestions or higher coil springs they would like to sell? also, where could i get leaf packs that would work for the rear?....i've heard f150 leafs, but not sure exactly what to pull them from......

back to the hunt.....

 

[5spdman]

did find 4" coils on ebay for $120, but would like to go cheaper if i could (money wise, not quality).....if it's less than 4" lift coils, i can always add spacers....

 

[5spdman]

well i found that thread i kept bringing up.....made it a bookmark on my computer months ago and forgot about it haha ....but alot of what i thought i remembered of the thread was wrong .....it wasn't 76 bronco coils, it was mid 90s f150 coils, and said to pull the overload bar and put in an AAL...NONE of which would help with lift, only articulation

here's the link:
http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=237302

now, granted that is all helpful information, it doesn't help much with lifting....i need to replace the starter on a friends 06 civic (which has the WORST place for a starter :fire so when i go into NAPA this week i'll ask about finding a spring that would be slightly softer than the stock ex springs but would give me around 2" lift, hopefully find and pull them at a local u-pick-it, hold them to the bucket with clamps for steel cable (to deal with coil size difference) and weld some dock washers for my spacers to make up the difference....wrong idea? i do have my eye on a set of 4" coils on ebay, but was hoping there would be a cheaper solution...

still wondering about f150 leafs...i've searched 57 pages worth of threads on here and haven't found a thing about using f150 leafs, but could have sworn i saw it mentioned on here somewhere....wondering if i should search stock threads as well... :scratch: