Most Likely Cause for Overheating With no Leaks & Good Fan and Belt?

[Swifty Morgan]

I put dye in the coolant. I don't see any leaks with a UV light yet. I haven't found any coolant on the floor. I hoped to find leaking coolant on a hose, but no luck yet.

The coolant is low, and the oil looks normal. Added coolant the other day, and the level is still below the two marks. It has to be going somewhere.

I am hoping to get this thing to a shop on Monday morning.

I can't believe Ford thought it was intelligent to design a car with a short-lived oil pump that, when it fails, pumps coolant into the oil pan in order to destroy the engine.

I've read that the timing chain is also a weak point, so if the pump has to be worked on, I have to decide whether I want to keep the old chain or replace it when its expected 100,000-mile life is up.

Hoping for the best, but looking at used Hondas and Toyotas.

 

[Turdle]

All of em suck in one way or another. Try eating a highlander thermostat change

 

[Swifty Morgan]

Filled the reservoir up again. Marked the level with a Sharpie. Took the car out and drove it maybe 20 miles in 90+ degrees and blazing sun.

Nothing happened. The level did not go down in the reservoir. There is no sign of leakage, although I just realized I haven't crawled under the car and looked up. From the top, I checked every place where I saw dye before, and everything was clean, so I think I was looking at dye I spilled while adding it to the coolant.

When all this business was going on, I saw that the level was low. I filled it. I drove it once, and it was low again. Filled it again. This time it didn't drink the coolant. I don't know what's happening.

Maybe the coolant was low for a long time, and it just reached a point where it messed with the sensor. Is that possible? I had the thermostat replaced a while back, and I can't say I checked to see how much coolant they put in the car. For all I know, they didn't top it off.

I don't understand how a car can lose a lot of coolant one week, in one day, and not lose it the next. It's like the car sucked the first dose of added coolant down while I was running it. As if it could not get into the system until the car ran.

Now I don't know if I should bother taking it in.

It is definitely true that all or at least most vehicles have some stupid engineering. I checked out a video of a guy replacing a Highlander thermostat, though, and it looked like a walk in the park compared to a Ford water pump.

 

[Turdle]

I'd send an oil sample to Blackstone for testing. If coolant is present they'll find it.

 

[Mbrooks420]

You bought a car for someone going senile……. Sounds like the problems started even before the purchase.

I’d just trade it in. You clearly have disdain for the vehicle, and it’s certain to cost you more and more money, as they tend to do.

 

[GerryEX]

That's very mysterious and as mentioned, it could be a money pit. I'd trade it as well

 

[peterk9]

I put dye in the coolant. I don't see any leaks with a UV light yet. I haven't found any coolant on the floor. I hoped to find leaking coolant on a hose, but no luck yet.

The coolant is low, and the oil looks normal. Added coolant the other day, and the level is still below the two marks. It has to be going somewhere.

I am hoping to get this thing to a shop on Monday morning.

I can't believe Ford thought it was intelligent to design a car with a short-lived oil pump that, when it fails, pumps coolant into the oil pan in order to destroy the engine.

I've read that the timing chain is also a weak point, so if the pump has to be worked on, I have to decide whether I want to keep the old chain or replace it when its expected 100,000-mile life is up.

Hoping for the best, but looking at used Hondas and Toyotas.

The reason the water pump is internal is because the transverse mounted engine left no room for an externally mounted one. Not a great design as it turned out.

Peter

 

[FordFlintrock]

The reason the water pump is internal is because the transverse mounted engine left no room for an externally mounted one. Not a great design as it turned out.

Peter

I really do not have a problem with a chain driven pump so long as it would last 150-200k miles. But when they drop like flies at 60-80k miles it is poor engineering and/or quality control which I have been seeing more of from Ford and other manufacturers in the last few years.
When I started working at Ford Dealerships in 1982 it was not like this. Engineers from Ford would come to the Dealership spending nights at the local hotel working with the hourly paid shop foreman to inspect and help diagnose running problems on early production runs and there would be a TSB with corrections ASAP. Nowadays it is often numerous TSB's for the same problem guessing at a fix showing a lack of competence and experience by those involved to get it done correctly the first time. Certainly no shortage of mediocrity.
Quality is Job 1, remember that slogan? Today it is CAD and if it looks good on the monitor they run with it having no roll up your sleeves hands on old school folks that can anticipate a shortcoming.

I truly believe some of these electronic problems cannot be repaired at the Dealer level. If up to me I would tell the Head of the Group who designed it to pack a bag and your tool kit (if they have one) you are going to XYZ Dealer to repair a troublesome vehicle in the field and hold them accountable.
Rant over

 

[Swifty Morgan]

My family was a GM family until my grandfather lost his Chevy-Buick dealership. When we started getting Ford products, I liked them. I thought they might be better than GM. But I have gone over the history, and I realize Fords have been really awful.

1. 85 Town Car. Trunk filled with water when it rained.
2. 91 Town Car. Caught on fire.
3. 94 Explorer. Transmission replaced. Four-wheel drive quit working. Heating system quit. Stopped shifting into top gear.
4. 03 T-bird. Refused to start because of bizarre grounding scheme. Dangerous half-second pause when accelerating due to stupid programming. Coil-on-plug problems. Coils were situated in depressions on top of the engine, and rainwater accumulated in them and went into the connections. Throttle body failed. AC started blowing roasting-hot air for no apparent reason.
5. 16 Explorer. Bizarre overheating alarms. Thermostat had to be replaced. AC system had to be replaced. Nutty engine-roasting insulating cover. Impossible to work on. Insane water pump design.

Our Buicks didn't go to the shop. Neither did a big Caddy or our Chevys. My dad's Toronado never had problems. I had a Camaro with poor quality control and dealer prep, but it wasn't a lemon. My mother and sister had Cimarrons, which were embarrassing cars, but they didn't go to the shop. My Dodge Cummins had to have some expensive work done on the AC, and the windshield leaked.

My Toyota Camry was wonderful, although the clutch cable broke once during the warranty period. My dad's Infiniti was junk from one end to the other, and that is normal for the brand. Infinitis are good to lease for a year and then dump.

I now think a 4runner will be my next car. The Highlander is said to be more complicated and harder to work on.

 

[Odrapnew]

There's a good chance that when the thermostat was replaced, they didn't get all the air out.
That air eventually worked its way out and replaced by coolant that was in the reservoir.
Since you said it hasn't dropped the last couple times you checked, just keep an eye on in and see if it changes.

For comparison, I had the heads rebuilt on my Mustang this spring. I filled as much coolant as I could, which I thought was topped off, but it must have had an air bubble in the system. When I took the car for a drive around the block, the coolant was fairly steady but then it started to sky rocket. I was about 2 seconds from shutting off the engine when the thermostat must have opened and temp quickly dropped.
After it cooled down I checked the level and I had to add I think close to 2 quarts of coolant to bring it back up to correct level.

So, back to my first comment, maybe it just had air in the system and that eventually worked it way out.

 

[FordFlintrock]

So, back to my first comment, maybe it just had air in the system and that eventually worked it way out.

With prevalence of rear HVAC's and front heater core locations all over the place using this quality tool is a must have for no spill air-bound free coolant filling.

https://www.amazon.com/UView-550000-Airlift-Cooling-Checker/dp/B0002SRH5G?tag=seriouexplor-20

 

[Swifty Morgan]

There's a good chance that when the thermostat was replaced, they didn't get all the air out.
That air eventually worked its way out and replaced by coolant that was in the reservoir.
Since you said it hasn't dropped the last couple times you checked, just keep an eye on in and see if it changes.

For comparison, I had the heads rebuilt on my Mustang this spring. I filled as much coolant as I could, which I thought was topped off, but it must have had an air bubble in the system. When I took the car for a drive around the block, the coolant was fairly steady but then it started to sky rocket. I was about 2 seconds from shutting off the engine when the thermostat must have opened and temp quickly dropped.
After it cooled down I checked the level and I had to add I think close to 2 quarts of coolant to bring it back up to correct level.

So, back to my first comment, maybe it just had air in the system and that eventually worked it way out.

Thanks. I'll bet this is what it is. Drove around today in temperatures reaching 100 degrees, in what is considered bad traffic for my area. No problems at all. I hope it stays that way. I don't think coolant can be going to the oil pan, since it would have to leak out of the weep hole first, and I have not seen that.

Regarding my list of Ford problems, I just remembered that the front wheel bearings in my dad's first Explorer went out. I don't know how any company could get wheel bearings wrong.

 

[Odrapnew]

Thanks. I'll bet this is what it is. Drove around today in temperatures reaching 100 degrees, in what is considered bad traffic for my area. No problems at all. I hope it stays that way. I don't think coolant can be going to the oil pan, since it would have to leak out of the weep hole first, and I have not seen that.

Regarding my list of Ford problems, I just remembered that the front wheel bearings in my dad's first Explorer went out. I don't know how any company could get wheel bearings wrong.

Coolant can get into the oil pan without going out the weep hole, but, you have likely seen it on the dipstick (milkshake color).

A high school friend of mine had a front wheel bearing lock up on his mid-90s Explorer. Could have been a bad accident because it pulled us into oncoming traffic lanes, but thankfully no cars were in those lanes.

 

[Mbrooks420]

Thanks. I'll bet this is what it is. Drove around today in temperatures reaching 100 degrees, in what is considered bad traffic for my area. No problems at all. I hope it stays that way. I don't think coolant can be going to the oil pan, since it would have to leak out of the weep hole first, and I have not seen that.

Regarding my list of Ford problems, I just remembered that the front wheel bearings in my dad's first Explorer went out. I don't know how any company could get wheel bearings wrong.

No car is infallible. PLENTY of other cars have wheel bearing failures. Used to have to replace the wheel bearing yearly on my moms rolling trash can (Trailblazer).

 

[Sixonemale]

There's a good chance that when the thermostat was replaced, they didn't get all the air out.
That air eventually worked its way out and replaced by coolant that was in the reservoir.
Since you said it hasn't dropped the last couple times you checked, just keep an eye on in and see if it changes.

Fully agree. I've proactively had my coolant flushed and filled by the local Ford dealership at 45k and 90k, one of the rare things I will let them do, just for peace of mind related to the water pump. Every time it's done, afterwards it drinks coolant for the next several days to the point where I need to add coolant and then finally levels off. Always makes me wonder about the customers who have this done and don’t check under their hoods or are not mechanically inclined.

 

[Swifty Morgan]

The level went down again, and I found dye on the AC compressor. Very small leak, but I took the car in. Ballpark guess: $2500. No confirmation yet on the price, but it seems obvious the water pump is a goner. Should I bite the bullet and replace the timing chain? I assume a coolant flush is part of the water pump job, since they have to drain it anyway.

The guy who runs the shop said the pump replacement is a common repair, and compressors also fail a lot. I told him I was thinking of selling and getting a 4Runner, and he said he thought that would be a very good move. I could tell he was reluctant to talk my car down but had more he wanted to say.

This happened while my other transportation is down. I have not been able to troubleshoot my truck's electrical problem, so we rented a car. I did not want to keep playing engine-replacement roulette by driving with a leak. They gave us a Nissan Rogue, which is a smaller SUV at a lower price point. I would not buy a Nissan because of Nissan's engineering and management problems and unwillingness to support vehicles older than a few years, but at 16K miles, the Rogue is not bad. The surprising thing is how much better the ride is. You would think a cheap rental-level Nissan would not match an upper-end Ford product, but there is no comparison. The Ford goes "BAM" on every bump, but the Nissan handled the lumps in our long rural blacktop driveway very comfortably. The Ford's tires are a couple of pounds below recommended pressure, so I don't think it has any excuse for the harsh ride. Maybe it's those stupid rapper rims cars have moved to. Those tiny sidewalls don't give much.

When the Explorer comes home, I have to decide whether to drive it a while to get value out of the repair or dump it before something else goes wrong. In spite of the horrible ride, noise, and unusable GPS, I really enjoy the car, but every Explorer of that vintage is a born lemon, and I would like my wife to know she is unlikely to end up standing by the side of the road with a dead car, hoping no sex offenders pull over.

I have to think this over. If I want to sell the car, there is no point in doing a transmission flush while it's in the shop.

 

[Swifty Morgan]

Just got the good news. The shop wants $2495, and I will be driving a Nissan until Wednesday. This is assuming the timing chain and associated parts are okay.

Built Ford tough!

Once this is finished, I can take the car in and let Ford take care of the multiple safety recalls.