My 4r70w slips. Help.

[MalcolmV8]

Thanks for the input. I went to Napa today and got a new filter, gasket and 15 quarts of Mercon V. I also got an inline filter to install in the tranny cooler lines just incase there's still some debris left over. I will also pull the cooler and lines and blow them out with the air compressor and some solvent. Like you say these normally go a long time so with any luck I should get many many miles out of this unit. Got my fingers crossed

 

[exploded99]

Ok, I think you were way ahead of me on that one - just wanted to be sure.

Have a beer for me when you finish!

 

[MalcolmV8]

OK guys. Sorry for the delay. I had originally intended to get the new transmission from ped5stang in within 2 days or so but after all the massive amount of work it took to practically pull the motor just to get to the tanny bolts I decided this is crazy and I need to change things. So I yanked the motor all the way and pulled the pan and started modding.

first I cut out the interference.

Relocated the oil drain plug, tacked in all the pieces.

Anyhow I finished all that up, welded & painted.

I then modded my motor mount adapter plates. They are actually Explorer plates and you may recognize them. Anyhow they went from been shimmed, to been recessed. Now the motor sits much lower.

OK now that all that got taken care of a week later I can put in/pull out the transmission without pulling the motor any more. Problem solved.

OK so tonight I pull the pan on the tranny I got from ped5stang I'm a little worried. Like I've said before I've never owned an automatic tranny so this may be perfectly normal but it seemed bad to me.
The pan is filthy, very fine black crud stuff, grey metallic pasty type coating everywhere and there are a few bronze shavings in there. Even a dead cricket but I assume he climbed in sometime while the tranny was sitting

Here's a few pics.

See how nasty the magnet was?

Another shot of the sump area

Not sure that you can actually see it but what I'm circling here are bronze pieces.

So I cleaned up the pan and while I had it off welded in a drain plug to the bottom of the pan so I can do frequent fluid changes without pulling the pan.

A little paint to prevent rust once I got done welding it.

Inside of the pan all cleaned up. You can see the heat marks from welding in the drain plug.

Magnet nice and clean

So anyhow what do you guys thing about the pan? I hope this is not another dud. I was going to use a Napa inline filter on the tranny lines but at $30 a pop I've decided to take it back and instead I ordered a filter adapter from Summit so I can just use the FL1A filters since I plan on changing it frequently. Should be here tomorrow. I estimate either Tuesday or Wednesday I'll be firing up the truck. Got my fingers crossed the previous owner just didn't take care of the tranny and that there's nothing wrong with it. Supposed to be a 2000 with only 35k miles. It probably never had an oil change in its life.

Thanks guys
Malcolm

 

[Brian_B]

The fine black stuff seems to be normal wear on the clutch plates to me. That doesn't look bad at all. I am sure Glacier will say more.

The bronze is more than likely from thrust washers (do they still use them Glacier?). That could be a concern, but there is not much and its not shiny silver everywhere. Silver usually is hard parts damaged.


Now the cricket.....That has me worried. Crickets are bad news!















Sorry I had to say that.

 

[IAmTodd]

I'd say the magnets fine. Mine similar in my '95 when I dropped the pan. Its doing its job.

 

[Glacier991]

the black crud is more or less normal. I am doubting the history as it was told to you however. The bronze is not good. I do not recall the year, but the later 4R70W's had a single thrust washer and it was for case clearance. Everything else was torrington bearing..... earlier ones (best as I know) has a "hat" rear case bushing, that also served as a thrust washer. While there are bronze bushings, I doubt that is bushing material. So the question becomes where is the bronze coming from... and the likely answer is Torque convertor.

My diary may come in handy Malcolm. I'm thinking you are looking at a rebuild. Metal in the pan is never good, not something you can just "live through" by changing the fluid.

I am impressed with your skills.

 

[MalcolmV8]

Thanks for everyone's input. Ped5stang did give me a 90 day warrantee starting on 9/29/05 when I purchased it so if this one is bad I can return it.
However bronze in the pan, possibly from the torque converter, might not show up with any drivability problems right? There's a possibility that this tranny may run just fine for 90 days and the fail right?

Oh and if it matters the whole bottom of the pan was not covered in bronze, just pieces here and there. There was no shinny metallic particles either.

 

[Glacier991]

I'd like to tell you that it's nothing to worry about, but I cannot. Metal pieces in the pan are bad news, period.

 

[MalcolmV8]

Humm... well I've come this far. I think I will fire it up with the remote oil filter installed and monitor metallic content in there by frequently changing the oil filter and cutting them open. If this transmission does fail I'll pull it and return it within the 90 days.
I emailed ped5stang and he said this transmission worked perfectly before they pulled it from the vehicle. Well see how it goes.

 

[Glacier991]

Might prove to be an interesting experiment!

 

[Glacier991]

In due course I'll be curious to know exactly where those metal shards came from.

 

[MalcolmV8]

You mean the bronze ones I just found in the pan? I'm not sure I'll know unless I rebuild it. Got my fingers crossed that it won't be needing that anytime soon. I came real close to firing it up tonight but it was really late and I'm tired so I decided it's best to sleep on it and fire up the truck tomorrow evening. We'll see how it goes.

 

[MalcolmV8]

OK I fired up the truck and took it for a test drive tonight. Pulls off OK, shifts into second OK. As soon as it shifts into third it just binds up like you just slammed on the brakes. If you try and press on the gas the motor just labors. I applied the brakes and slowed it down so it shifted into second and went back home. I tried two or three times with the same results. Also after the first test drive in which I think it binded up the worst I noticed as soon as I got home there was a small amount of smoke like hot oil when I pulled out the dipstick. I also saw it coming out the vent hose which I have routed up into the engine bay.
Tranny fluid temps according to my laptop interface showed around 70 when I first fired the vehicle. I let it idle in the driveway while checking other stuff and it got up to around 107. When driving the temps were around 120ish and when it bound up in third they shot right up to 160ish and then came back down as I was in driving back home in second.

Sigh.... what does all this mean? Another toasted no good tranny? I guess I need to just fork out the cash and get a Ford tranny.

 

[Glacier991]

My money is on a totally crumped direct clutch. That applies for the first time in 3rd. Sorry for the bad results. Maybe you should try your hand at rebuilding?

 

[MalcolmV8]

As much as I'd love to rebuild it I have a time crunch. I need my truck back asap. We're remodeling our house and the lack of my truck is really not helping. I guess I'll get with ped5stang in the morning and see about returning it.

 

[Brian_B]

Lets see. You put in one trans that was bad, pulled it and put in another one, and have to pull it again now. In two days time (or less) you can rebuild one by yourself. Ordering parts and the books would take a little longer.

No doubt that you have the skill level to do it.

Now what do you do? Go buy a new ford unit and wait a few days to get it? Buy parts and wait a few days to get them? Just something to think about.

 

[MalcolmV8]

Brian, you make a good point. Where are the books / videos available from on doing the rebuild? Also where do you purchase a basic rebuild kit from and how much does it cost?

If I could purchase a book or video on the rebuild process ahead of time (like right now) I can go over the process and see what's involved. I've never even seen inside of an auto tranny (other than some pics on the net) so I must admit it's a little intimidating.

 

[Brian_B]

Glacier can tell you more than I can about the newer transmissions (books and things). The ford books are the best, but in a pinch the ATSG manuals are helpful (to some extent). Parts (complete guess on this trans) would be in the neighborhood of $400 (maybe?). I have not been in one of the newer ones, but they are all similar.

A clean place to work and keep everything organized is key for me.

I save up old butter bowls and aluminum pans. I am not the expert Glacier is, so I label things as I take them apart as well. Got a digi cam? I find them useful for any automotive I do now.

As far as tools you already have most of them. You can probably build/borrow/rent the few you do not currently have. We (dad and I) made some of our own.

Its not the same transmission (toy compared to yours),but glacier has an A4LD rebuild diary in this forum with pics you can look at for an idea of whats involved.

 

[Glacier991]

Try looking at my 4R70W Rebuild Diary too, it is RIGHT on point...and look at the the links, some with videos on rebuiding! Free! It is an easy trannie to rebuild, and I can coach you thru it and even help ya with some parts if need be.

 

[MalcolmV8]

I spoke to Baumann and here's what they said (providing I don't mess up what they told me). They said that it sounds like the intermediate one way clutch is jammed up. He said that when the transmission shifts from second to third it does not release second gear instead the one way clutch allows third to take over. However if the intermediate one way clutch has a problem then when third engages it's fighting second which is also engaged and you get the binding I'm experiencing.
He said if I want to test this I can manually shift the transmission (a feature of this controller) and shift 1st, 2nd, and then quick go right to forth skipping by third real fast and it should work because in 4th the intermediate clutch is not used and second and third are released. Providing that is my problem.