Need help with my V8 swap

[Axial32]

No... We've fixed the coil power thing along time ago... It's now the pcm not telling it to spark... Which I thought maybe that would be because of the no ignition trigger wire having power... If you read my #119 post that'll update you.

I've been under my dash for some time now and can't find a re/light blue wire on any of the firerwall plugs... There is a red/lightblue wire in the fuse box on fuse 24 but I can't trace to anywhere...

 

[2000StreetRod]

anti-theft relay

I downloaded a 1997 Owner's Guide and I agree that it does not include a location diagram for the relay module. I looked at my 2000 wiring diagram component location views and learned that my relay module is located behind the dash about in the middle of the vehicle. Yours is probably in the same area. Unfortunately, the drawing seems to indicate that the module is a single unit containing multiple relays that may not be individually accessible. However, you still should be able to probe the wiring.

It seems like you're jumping from one thing to another without confirming that an entire circuit is wired correctly. It's unlikely that you are "going to get lucky" and just happen on the problem. In the end, it usually takes less time if you are methodical.

I suggest:
1. that you confirm there is battery voltage at the ignition coil pack
2. that you trace the voltage path to the starter relay energizing coil to determine why the key does not crank the starter
3. correct the crank problem
4. concentrate on the PCM power paths

 

[Axial32]

Ok... Well I'm trying to find why there isn't power to the trigger wire at the starter relay... So we found that there isn't a pin the location on the plugin...there is red/light blue wire in the fuse box on fuse 24... I traced one end onto the column.. And I can't find were the other end goes...unless it changes color I don't know.. We couldn't find it on any of the three plugs.

 

[2000StreetRod]

red/light blue wires

Ok... Well I'm trying to find why there isn't power to the trigger wire at the starter relay... So we found that there isn't a pin the location on the plugin...there is red/light blue wire in the fuse box on fuse 24... I traced one end onto the column.. And I can't find were the other end goes...unless it changes color I don't know.. We couldn't find it on any of the three plugs.

One of the red/light blue wires connects fuse 24 to the ignition switch. The other red/light blue wire connects fuse 24 to the anti-theft relay.

If there is no battery voltage at fuse 24 in start then I would look for the yellow wire that goes from fuse 1 (60 amps) in the power distribution box under the hood to the ignition switch. Maybe the yellow wire pins are not making contact at the firewall connector. Or maybe fuse 1 is blown. The yellow wire should be battery voltage at all times.

 

[Axial32]

OK,

It now CRANKS with the key...

but still no spark from the coils, power is going to the coils but not out of them.

 

[2000StreetRod]

good news!

OK,

It now CRANKS with the key...

but still no spark from the coils, power is going to the coils but not out of them.

Glad to hear that the key is now cranking the engine!

The ignition coil fires when the PCM grounds it's side of the coil packs. Did you check for spark to the plugs on both coil packs? You could have a bad coil pack.

Is the crankshaft position sensor connected?

 

[2000StreetRod]

fuel pump control

According to my 1996 wiring diagram the PCM controls the fuel pump relay. Do you have fuel pressure? If not, then the PCM may not yet be satisfied and is preventing ignition firing.

 

[2000StreetRod]

96 vs 97 fuse differences

I compared the power distribution box fuse numbers and functions listed in the 97 owner's guide with my 96 wiring diagrams and they are numbered differently.

I know that you have power to the PCM because you stated that CEL illuminated when the key was in run. However, you may not have power to the PCM keep alive memory. You may want to check fuse 11 (20 amps) in the power distribution box for the PCM memory. There should be battery voltage at the fuse at all times.

Another good test is to check your sensor supply voltage. The TPS is the easiest one to check. If you have a reference voltage to it then most of the other sensors will have power. The brown/white wire at the TPS connector should be about 5 volts with the ignition switch in run.

 

[Axial32]

Alright...

I'll check that stuff out... I just went out and bought new coils but the weather is so bad out that I can't go back out to the barn... I have had fuel pressure from the get go... Anytime that we cranked it with the key on run it was getting fuel...
I'm getting so excited.. I want to hear this beast RUN..!!!!

 

[Axial32]

Well a section of the storm passed giving a gap of time that we went out and put the coils in... But still no spark out of the plugs... So tomorrow I'll check what was posted and hopefully it'll be running tomorrow.

 

[2000StreetRod]

RAP module

I just found another page in my 96 wiring diagram that shows the entire anti-theft circuit at a system level. It shows that the RAP module has several ways of preventing engine start.

The first way is using the anti-theft relay to prevent the engine from cranking. What did you do to get the engine to crank with the key with the RAP module disconnected?

The second way is by communication with the PCM via the OBD-II data bus. The PCM probably disables the ignition if not satisfied by the communication with the RAP module. To defeat this would require reprogramming the PCM to defeat the anti-theft capability. That would be expensive and inconvenient. You'd like to prevent someone from stealing your Sport after doing all the work to install the V8. Also, the remote keyless entry and keypad are nice features. I suspect that you will have to reconnect the wire you cut and reconnect the RAP module electrical connector. Then comes the agony of getting the V8 PCM to be compatible with your V6 RAP module. I read a post by the late aldive (Al Franklin) regarding replacement of his RAP module on his 99 XLT. In it he explains how to reprogram the PCM with the new RAP module 5 digit code. That may be what you need to do. The code should be visible (using a light) on the side of the RAP module. How to find the code is described in a later post in the same thread:
RAP module replacement

Note: I have no first hand experience with the anti-theft system and am just making comments based on my interpretation of the 96 wiring diagram and things I have found on the forum. I know there are members with excellent first hand knowledge and hope they will assist. Resolving the anti-theft issue is a major obstacle to the V6 to V8 conversion.

 

[2000StreetRod]

97 RAP code reprogram

I found in the thread with the following link that in 97 the key is only cycled 5 times instead of 8 to reprogram.

All you need to know about keyless entry

 

[2000StreetRod]

Iso 9141

According to my 96 anti-theft circuit diagram the RAP module connects to pin 7 of the OBD-II bus. In my 2000 wiring diagram of the multiplex bus pin 7 is identified as ISO 9141. I looked up ISO 9141 on the internet and learned that pin 7 is normally used by Chrysler and for european vehicles. In my 96 wiring diagrams I have not been able to find a PCM connection to pin 7 so I don't know if it is actually being utilized.

On my 2000 Sport with PATS if an invalid key is inserted in the ignition the engine cranks but will not start because the fuel injectors are disabled. I seem to recall that prior to PATS the starter and ignition were disabled but haven't confirmed that.

I'm keenly interested in the success of your project because I may attempt the same conversion in a few years.

 

[pwrshft99]

On my 2000 Sport with PATS if an invalid key is inserted in the ignition the engine cranks but will not start because the fuel injectors are disabled. I seem to recall that prior to PATS the starter and ignition were disabled but haven't confirmed that.

Awhile back my chip wiggled loose and tripped the anti theft. The car would crank and crank but never tried to start. The theft light blinked constantly. Once I secured the chip, It was ok.

I feel for the OP, it sucks having so much time and money wrapped up in something and being oh so close.

From what I remember regarding OBD2 Ford swaps, you will need to do one of the following...

1. Replace the entire body harness, gauge cluster, key and ignition with the donor vehicle parts. My understanding is the computer looks for an ID number to communicate with these parts. if numbers don't match, it won't fire.

2. Tow the truck to Ford and they will disable/program the anti theft system. The problem here is most dealer will shy away from projects like this and it will be expensive. I'd call around until I found someone who knew what I was talking about.

3. Your best investment would be a tune to completely disable the anti theft. The computer will ignore the missing info and just run the damn motor. As an added benefit you get more power, mileage and better shift points. Look to spend 400+ if you go for a new chip or tuner but you could always go used, have the device reprogramed for your vehicle and save a few bucks..

Good luck, ill certainly be following along !!

 

[Axial32]

It cranks with and without the RAp connected.. I think I found the antitheft relay.. I think it might be in this black box, there's five relays in it.

I can't get my truck scanned until later around 6:30 so I have to wait for that.. I'm hopeing that it's not my computer...

 

[Axial32]

I don't see why I would have to do the entire body harness... they're both 97 explorers...

 

[Axial32]

Well I found a PCM on ebay...would someone check it out.. It would be the 5.0 one.. just let me know what I have to look up
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Ford...ptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

Or what should I search for if this is my last resort..

 

[Axial32]

Well... checked out all the relays and I don't think any of them are the antitheft relay...

We tested the C.P.S. and it seemed fine...

I don't know what else to try..

Just waiting to get it scanned.

 

[Axial32]

After reading through those links you sent streetrod... I don't think the RAP would stop the engine from firing if it only controls the keyless entry and alarm.

 

[Axial32]

OK i found some more stuff that I don't know what they are or what they go too.

Like:
What's this yellow box for???

After going alittle farther under the dash... I found another box of relays... would any of these be antitheft.. I'm believing that the relays in the back aren't antitheft.

Here's a better pic.. 7 relays