Never seen this before...

[koda2000]

There is very little if any clearance between my cross-pin and the axles. I had to use a plastic hammer to drive the pin in, but it did not require excessive force. I could almost push it in with my fingers. There is a "C" eliminator kit according to what I saw on the Summit Racing site, but it's rather expensive and I don't want to spend any more money on this vehicle than necessary.

I considered how the axle button might have been separated from the axle and came to the conclusion that for the most part the axle and pin rotate together (except while cornering). Examining the broken the button and axle end at the break I don't see any evidence that the button was twisted off. At the time it failed I'd only driven about a mile from my house (probably a less) so I don't think any thermal expansion occurred during that short trip. I also saw no sign of damage/wear on the pin's surface where the axles contact it. The button was not "milled" by the "C" clip in any way.

Not knowing what caused the break is what's so disconcerting.

 

[koda2000]

There is very little if any clearance between my cross-pin and the axles. I had to use a plastic hammer to drive the pin in, but it did not require excessive force. I could almost push it in with my fingers. There is a "C" eliminator kit according to what I saw on the Summit Racing site, but it's rather expensive and I don't want to spend any more money on this vehicle than necessary.

I considered how the axle button might have been separated from the axle and came to the conclusion that for the most part the axle and pin rotate together (except while cornering). Examining the broken the button and axle end at the break I don't see any evidence that the button was twisted off. At the time it failed I'd only driven about a mile from my house (probably a less) so I don't think any thermal expansion occurred during that short trip. I also saw no sign of damage/wear on the pin's surface where the axles contact it. The button was not "milled" by the "C" clip in any way.

Not knowing what caused the break is what's so disconcerting.

Here a some photo's of the break:

Bad metallurgy?

Actually I just checked and there is a little in/out play on the left axle, but I don't feel any in/out play on the right axle (the one that broke). It's strange because as I recall the left side gear had 2 shims under it, but the right side had none. There's no way to increase the play on the right side.

 

[CDW6212R]

I'm glad you have it back together. I'd bet on it being the axle being poorly forged, rather than normal external forces. The break looks unlike a torn metal surface, but like a smoother fault surface. How much was the Dorman replacement axle?

 

[koda2000]

I'm glad you have it back together. I'd bet on it being the axle being poorly forged, rather than normal external forces. The break looks unlike a torn metal surface, but like a smoother fault surface. How much was the Dorman replacement axle?

That's an encouraging opinion. Just odd that it survived for many years/miles and then broke w/out warning, but who knows what kind of treatment it received at the salvage yard before I got it.

The Dorman axle was $138 with Prime (plus tax) off Amazon, but considering it came with the bearing and seal (and was supposed to have come with usable new lug studs and nuts) it was the best price I found by far. It actually had gotten very good customer reviews, other than the lug nut issue. In a couple of more hours I'll refill it with oil and take it around the block to see if the wheels stay on. Then I can wash it and my '01 EB and park the EB in my garage again.

 

[CDW6212R]

I'm sure you will be fine. If you didn't find anything amiss in the rear that could cause the forces it should take to break that axle, it'll be like new now. I went through my new 98 truck just for peace of mind, and I expect it to be flawless until I decide to swap the carrier at some point.

I did fix(adjust) my parking brake so it works well. I have been unimpressed with the parking brakes of my other two 2nd gens, and my 95 Crown Vics with similar parts. I adjusted the little drum linings very tight into the rotor, so finally it holds well compared to my other experiences. I think it will take regular adjustments from the backside with a screw driver, to keep them holding well.

 

[SWIGIN]

The end clearance of the axle to the center pin is no big deal as long as it has some.

I bought new Moser racing axles for the 8.8 in my Mustang and the part that broke off of yours was too thick to let the center pin go in.
I called Moser and they tell me to just grind some off each axle till the pin goes in. So if just make it fit is good enough for high HP high TQ race machines I guess it's good enough for my street Mustang.

That was over 10 years ago and all is still good with that rear. Like I said as long as there is some end play I think all is good.

I have done over 20 8.8 rears and there seems to always be a tad bit of end play.


EDIT.... I seen you said you had no shim under a side gear and the other had 2. This is wrong and why I don't buy junk yard parts and run them as is. That rear had someone's fingers in it that didn't know what they were doing and now it's your mess.

I would with out a doubt re shim the side gears correctly and grind the end pad to give me the proper center pin fitment.

 

[shucker1]

I'd bet on it being the axle being poorly forged, rather than normal external forces. The break looks unlike a torn metal surface, but like a smoother fault surface.

Don seems to be spot on. No twist marks, No Hot Spots.

Surprised it took so long to show up but I guess that's a good thing?

 

[koda2000]

The end clearance of the axle to the center pin is no big deal as long as it has some.

I bought new Moser racing axles for the 8.8 in my Mustang and the part that broke off of yours was too thick to let the center pin go in.
I called Moser and they tell me to just grind some off each axle till the pin goes in. So if just make it fit is good enough for high HP high TQ race machines I guess it's good enough for my street Mustang.

That was over 10 years ago and all is still good with that rear. Like I said as long as there is some end play I think all is good.

I have done over 20 8.8 rears and there seems to always be a tad bit of end play.


EDIT.... I seen you said you had no shim under a side gear and the other had 2. This is wrong and why I don't buy junk yard parts and run them as is. That rear had someone's fingers in it that didn't know what they were doing and now it's your mess.

I would with out a doubt re shim the side gears correctly and grind the end pad to give me the proper center pin fitment.

I was thinking about grinding down the tip of the axle a bit to get some clearance on the tight side. So are you saying there should be one shim under each side gear?

Well it's back together for now. I just filled it with 80W90 and took it around my neighborhood. Everything seems okay. No noises or anything. I'll drive it for a while and then I may pull the cover and drain it. Then I can fiddle with it a little more. This is a $1000 Sport Trac that I don't want to spend too much time or money on. I just want it to be safe.

 

[CDW6212R]

I'm not familiar with all of the components of the rear. If the shims mentioned under the side gears are the cup shaped pieces, those are required to be there one per side, as mentioned by SWIGIN. It's not hard to take all of those parts out, and it sounds like someone got them mixed up. It's a dirty and smelly job, but go ahead and dig into it again and make sure the parts are arranged properly.

 

[Robman]

And soon one of your children confesses to a joy ride full of donuts and possible curb contact

 

[koda2000]

I'm not familiar with all of the components of the rear. If the shims mentioned under the side gears are the cup shaped pieces, those are required to be there one per side, as mentioned by SWIGEN. It's not hard to take all of those parts out, and it sounds like someone got them mixed up. It's a dirty and smelly job, but go ahead and dig into it again and make sure the parts are arranged properly.

Don - No, it's not the cupped washer thingy's under the spider gears that go on the cross-pin. You couldn't use more than one of them if you tried. There were flat-style shims behind the left axle side gear, but there were none behind the right side gear, and frankly w/out grinding the tip of the right side axle a bit I doubt there's any room for a shim on the right side.

My question to SWIGEN is should there be one (or even more than one) of those shims behind each axle's side gear? I'm not sure if the purpose for the shim, is for spacing or does it act sort of like a bearing surface for the gear?

Rodman - I know you're kidding, but my children (who are now all in their mid-late 30's) are not allowed to drive my vehicles. That's why I bought them their own vehicles to destroy as they see fit. Some do a better job at that than the others. My son-in-law's the worst. His Sport needs ball joints, a windshield, intake gaskets, numerous light bulbs and a wheel alignment, but he shows no interest in repairing it or learning how to, so other than checking his trucks fluids occasionally I don't touch it anymore.

 

[CDW6212R]

Good, I thought you meant the simple flat shims next to the side gears, which are for clearances, along with the clutches if it's an LS. I guess the other gears I mentioned are not called the side gears, but the spider gears then.

I set up my 93 Explorer clutches with an extra friction on each side, and that made the axle clearance very tight. I didn't alter the shims it had, which I think were just two on the thin side. I had no trouble with that rear and I worked it hard, it needed the extra clutches. Taking off with one tire on gravel, over and over again, will wear out a typical LS very fast.

 

[koda2000]

It's not LSD anymore (for that matter it was no longer LSD before I replaced the original LSD rear end. The clutches were completely wasted). The replacement is an open unit. On the rare occasion we get snow or icy roads I don't drive anywhere, as I don't need to go anywhere that badly I just wait for it to melt.

On my longer test drive to town this morning I though I could hear the axle I didn't replace clunk against the center pin as I when from right hand to left hand curves, which didn't make sense as I hadn't done anything to that axle. Turns out it was a blown front sway bar bushing. Replace it and no more clunking.

 

[CDW6212R]

The LS clutch kit from Ford used to be just $50, now I see it's way too much. I like the gear driven LS units, but those have gotten higher too.

Drive it a while and if nothing seems wrong, leave it until the next time the rear might need attention. Later on it would be good to pull the cover to inspect it, at one year would be about right. If it's all great then, the axle was defective for sure.

 

[SWIGIN]

I have never seen a rear with no shim under the side gear. You can put as many as you want under each as long as you can get it to go together. I do this to add preload and even an open rear can benefit from some extra side gear preload. I do this to make the LS more locker like if that makes sense.

My Uncle who was a long time Ford trained mechanic showed me how to do this, he calls it a ''fake posi'' when done to an open rear.

But none of that matters in this case, I'm just showing how more that one shim can be perfectly fine but I have never seen none .

 

[koda2000]

Yes, I'll be watching/listening to it very closely. I have to make a 50 mile trip (one way) to house-sit at my daughter's next week, so that will the longest trip I plan on taking with it in the near future. Having multiple vehicles to drive, I really don't put many miles on any one of my vehicles (maybe 5,000 a year) and most of that is around town.

SWIGEN - Do these side-gear shims have a name? I see kits on eBay where they call them spider-gear thrust washers. They come with one for each side gear.

Example:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/SPIDER-GEAR...ash=item4d41df13b2:g:iHcAAOSwk1JWcHl6&vxp=mtr

 

[SWIGIN]

By the way guys its SWIGIN not SWIGEN.

The ones in your link are for an 8'' rear not a 8.8.

I have done so many 8.8 rears that I have an endless supply of these shims. Guys bring me all the parts they want installed and I keep the extra parts. I see kits like this.... http://www.ebay.com/itm/Omix-Ada-16...inion-Shims-/231929718832?hash=item360016a830

I get kits like that from the customer most times I do a rear so after 20 plus you have pounds of each type of shim.



There is no one shim for all side gears either. Just like the pinion or carrier there are many thicknesses and who can tell what you need but the guy who has it in his hands. There is just no way in telling what you need without a complete check out.

 

[koda2000]

By the way guys its SWIGIN not SWIGEN.

The ones in your link are for an 8'' rear not a 8.8.

I have done so many 8.8 rears that I have an endless supply of these shims. Guys bring me all the parts they want installed and I keep the extra parts. I see kits like this.... http://www.ebay.com/itm/Omix-Ada-16...inion-Shims-/231929718832?hash=item360016a830

I get kits like that from the customer most times I do a rear so after 20 plus you have pounds of each type of shim.



There is no one shim for all side gears either. Just like the pinion or carrier there are many thicknesses and who can tell what you need but the guy who has it in his hands. There is just no way in telling what you need without a complete check out.

Well, with 2 shims on the left side (thickness unknown) I have maybe 1/8" in/out play when stone cold. On the right side I have zero in/out axle play. I'd like to see a bit less play on the left side and after grinding the right axle tip I'd be happy seeing the same amount of play on it. Not very scientific I know, but I think that would be good enough for this vehicle. So to accomplish this I guess I'd need a package of assorted thickness shims/thrust washers.

This kit is for 8.8/31 spline/7/8 cross-pin and only shows 2 thrush washers... ?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/SPIDER-GEAR...ash=item3a91ec9a2e:g:vp0AAOSwBahU3PLK&vxp=mtr

 

[CDW6212R]

I'm sorry SWIGIN, I misspelled your user name in my post above.

So that axle end play can be as little is nothing? That's good to know, I had my 93 very tight and checked it a week after doing the clutches. It had loosened just a hair in about 150 miles, and all was smooth and quiet.

 

[SWIGIN]

I'm sorry SWIGIN, I misspelled your user name in my post above.

So that axle end play can be as little is nothing? That's good to know, I had my 93 very tight and checked it a week after doing the clutches. It had loosened just a hair in about 150 miles, and all was smooth and quiet.

I think your misunderstanding what the side shims do or what happens when you add more.

I think you guys think the side shims are there to adjust how close your axle is to the center pin.....not so.

Like I said, I fool with those shims all the time and I can't recall ever needing to grind an axle to get it to fit because of the shims.
Long before you get to that step you'll have to install the spider gears then the center pin.

This is what I meant by preload, on the spiders not the center pin.

I mostly deal with LS carriers and I add an extra fiber disc to the clutch pack per side and delete a steel disc at the same time. That really messes with the height of the stack and you need to reshim each side but I do add more for added preload.

I shim to the point that the spiders need to be tapped in place with a brass punch, tight but doable. Too tight and you'll have a mess on your hands. But even with that much slack taken up the center pins always go in but there might not be much room.

If I ever ran into a center pin not sliding in place I would without a doubt grind the end pad on the axle to get a slight amount of play when the C clip is in place and the axle is slid out.




None of this has anything to do with the OPs thread, well maybe it does. If a carrier is machined out of spec you could have a side gear that without shims is too far inward. I just have never seen this was all I was saying.

Those shims are under a lot of heat and pressure and I have seen them stick almost welded in place and it seems like there is none because it wont come out.

Basically you either have a shim behind your side gear or your running your side gear directly on the cast iron carrier. Is the second option a problem.....whos to say but Ford does put them there for a reason.