New Explorer "Crucial" to Ford

[unclemeat]

I have been a loyal Ford customer for over 20-years. I bought my first X in 1990. It was way better than anything that jeep was making. I own a 05 X. It has very limited offroad capabilty. It does drive very nicely on the road. It is way to big and heavy. An Explorer with any less offroad ability is a car. If I want to drive a car I have an 10 Mustang.

I dont want a F 150. Too big, too expensive and just plain ugly. What kind or truck does not give an option for a manual transmission? You can get it with a DVD player. I would get a Raptor, but we have no deserts around here. The beaches have a 25-mph speed limit. Get off road capability loose on road capability.

My 04 Level II Ranger is a nice comprimise. Small light and nimble. Good performance. But Ford in their infinite wisdom discontinued the Level II and now is cutting the Ranger.

IMO Ford has turned their back on my needs and desires for anykind of work or play vehicle. I am not just bashing Ford, my (my wifes) 10 Mustang is awesome. But I am a truck/offroad guy. I think that Ford should have just let the Explorer name die instead of slapping it on a car.

 

[aj_dunbar]

I think that Ford should have just let the Explorer name die instead of slapping it on a car.[/QUOTE]

I agree hole heartedly!!! I have no problem with the new ex exept thats it's just not and ex just give it a new name and don't confuse it with a true S.U.V !!!

 

[bcbid]

unclemeat.....

very well written...When I was young you use to be able to get options on a vehicle and the salesman knew about cars. now they have "packages" which usally mean some kind of graphics...

 

[edge929]

The Ford rep on the facebook page has responded to very similar comments unclemeat. He basically said what we already know, the off-road enthusiast crowd doesn't even register as a blip on the sales chart. Ford is in business to sell a lot of cars, well beyond the amount of people who appreciate and value the past-time that is off-roading.

 

[Limited02]

I answered a question in the 3rd gen forum asking if the 3rd gen crowd is either off-road or street oriented. My reply was off-road and I feel the same with this forum(all gens) as a whole is off-road oriented.

So because of that, most on here will bash the new Explorer because it's not "capable off-road." I am a street guy and I am excited because the quality/refinement is leaps and bounds above any Explorer previously made. I really hope Ford drops the 3.5 Ecoboost in and maybe a few years down the road I will pick one up. But to hate on the new Explorer because Moab will own it, is fugging stupid.

Edit: Here's a good read- http://www.autoblog.com/2010/12/13/2011-ford-explorer-first-drive-review-road-test/

 

[unclemeat]

Hey,

I am not talking Moab ready. I am talking jobsite ready, or beach ready.

My gripe is with Ford. They should never forget that it was the "offroad crowd" that popularized the EXplorer. It was the "offroad crowd" that made normal people want an EXplorer. It was different than any other vehicle . Now it is just a box like all the other boxes.

 

[Limited02]

I believe the only thing slowing down the new Explorer in an off-road situation is it's approach/departure angles, but more so, its tires. Otherwise, it will do just as good off-road as any Explorer before it.

And even if it doesn't go as far off-road as previous Ex's stock for stock, then that's a good thing because you don't have to walk as far for help when you get stuck

 

[gmanpaint]

ex·plor·er (ĭk-splôrˈər, -splōrˈ-)
noun

1. One that explores, especially one that explores a geographic area.
2. An implement or a tool used for exploring.

Remember when a name meant something?

:

 

[2TimingTom]

Here is a picture of a VUE (FWD open diff, strut front suspension...... kinda like the 2011 Explorer) with some big off-road meats:

It's all about tires. This guy drive his VUE in some pretty impressive conditions.

And here's my VUE towing a U-Haul trailer that weighed about 2,000 lbs:

My VUE is one of few VUEs that even has a receiver for towing- I actually put it on so I could get a hitch mount bike rack. I see a fair share of Explorers without a receiver as well. Most people don't need to tow. Most people don't know how to tow. Therefore, most people don't need the capability to tow that much. The 5,000 lbs that the 2011 Explorer can tow will be PLENTY for most people that are towing.

But times are changing. People care more about mpgs than they do ground clearance and approach/departure angles and towing capacities. Ford feels it's best for them to produce an Explorer like this, then that's their business. If you were in the business of building cars/trucks- would you build a truck that appealed to 1,000 people or 1 million people? Some people may feel that Ford "turned their back on them" by building this new Explorer. If that's true, then Ford "turned their back on them" by rotating about 1/2 degree.

The good news is that with something like 6.5 million Explorers produced up until now, there should be plenty of parts out there to keep your beloved off-road capable Explorers running for a long time.

 

[thaywood]

Still, the whole concept of the new Explorer bothers me. It's a car, not a truck. Even Ford admits that. They should have just given it a new name and and let the venerable Explorer die gracefully. They're just name dropping when it comes down to it. People are falling for it, so bold move for Ford. Unlikely I'd ever own one.

For someone who was attracted to Explorers back in the spring of '93 when I factory ordered my first one, it saddens me. I had two buddies with Bronco II's. They both bought them brand new and I found them to be poorly made, and sort of "cheap" feeling. As time went on, the whole SUV concept appealed to me, so after sitting in a Pathfinder, a 4 Runner, and a Cherokee at a car show, I bought an Explorer for what it WAS, a solid, TRUCK. The other offerings felt cheap to me too. I remember how sitting in an Explorer was "love at first feel" for me. I ordered my '93 Sport soon after.

I definitely don't like what the Explorer has become. They're appealing to the soccer moms of the world (nothing has changed there). I thought that what the Flex and Edge were for these days. I'm a Ford guy and always will be for the most part. This latest Explorer rendition just leaves me feeling empty.

I'm with you 100% on this. They should have let the Explorer die with dignity instead of slapping the name on this wrong-wheel-drive imitation. I love my '94 4x4 and will never even entertain the thought of test driving the Flexplorer, let alone ever buying one. If I wanted a car, I'd buy a car. The Ex is supposed to be a truck. Even if I could afford one, which I can't, I wouldn't even think about it. My '94 serves me well. It does everything I need it to and it will go off-road if necessary. I've even used it to pull a Hoda Pilot out of a ditch Plus I've towed cars, trucks, boats, tractors, pretty much everything, with that TRUCK. It rides nice, handles pretty well for a TRUCK, and gets 19mpg most of the time. I wouldn't give it up for anything. And certainly not some FWD CUV (Crappy Useless Vehicle). The limp wristed nancy boys and soccer moms of the world can have their Flexplorers. We "real men" will be perfectly content with our real, truck-based, REAR-WHEEL-DRIVE, full chassis Explorers. Thank you.

 

[thaywood]

Thanks @Turdle for the heads up for the thread

Hey everyone, my name is Marielle and I'm working directly with Team Detroit for the launch of the 2011 Ford Explorer! I have another thread going on the forum, but Turdle was kind enough to direct me here too I see there are a lot of strong opinions on the new Explorer and I just wanted to introduce myself and let you know that I'm here to answer any questions you may have!

@mrpositraction I'm glad you came here to learn about the Explorer, and I'd be more than happy to help you

Why did you decide to put the Explorer name on a FWD imitation SUV instead of letting it die with diginty? The Flexplorer could just as easily been called the Flex, Edge, or Escape. Why does Ford need another cheesy car-based CUV? They already have enough. Ford will end up saturating the market and hurting their own sales. There are still people out there who want a true RWD SUV. Jeep knows this. That's why the new Grand Cherokee is still RWD with a V-8 option for those who want a real SUV with real capabilities. I think the Flexplorer will sell well at first, but once all the nancy boys and soccer moms have one, it'll die. And it will not be missed.

 

[Limited02]

Why did you decide to put the Explorer name on a FWD imitation SUV instead of letting it die with diginty? The Flexplorer could just as easily been called the Flex, Edge, or Escape. Why does Ford need another cheesy car-based CUV? They already have enough. Ford will end up saturating the market and hurting their own sales. There are still people out there who want a true RWD SUV. Jeep knows this. That's why the new Grand Cherokee is still RWD with a V-8 option for those who want a real SUV with real capabilities. I think the Flexplorer will sell well at first, but once all the nancy boys and soccer moms have one, it'll die. And it will not be missed.

What advantage does RWD have over FWD? When 4x4 is needed, what advantage does the Jeep have over the Ex then?

I'm trying to think of one thing your '94 does better than a '11 and then only thing I can think of is.............

EDIT: What "capabilities" is the new Explorer lacking?

 

[edge929]

Why did you decide to put the Explorer name on a FWD imitation SUV instead of letting it die with diginty? The Flexplorer could just as easily been called the Flex, Edge, or Escape. Why does Ford need another cheesy car-based CUV? They already have enough. Ford will end up saturating the market and hurting their own sales. There are still people out there who want a true RWD SUV. Jeep knows this. That's why the new Grand Cherokee is still RWD with a V-8 option for those who want a real SUV with real capabilities. I think the Flexplorer will sell well at first, but once all the nancy boys and soccer moms have one, it'll die. And it will not be missed.

I can answer part of this, seeing how I have a 2011 on order.

Escape = love it but just too small for my family of soon-to-be-four
Flex = Ugly, glorified wagon
Edge = Like it but a little too small, would probably work for my needs and would have bought but then the new Explorer was introduced
Explorer = Just the right size, 2011 fuel economy is what won me
Expedition = Too big, can't justify the gas it eats, I rarely tow and when I do it's less than 3000 lbs

Again, I fail to see the "need" for a V8 when the V6 puts out just as much power. Do you just REALLY want that V8 badge on your X and the ability to tell people "yeah it's got a V8"? I don't care what engine it comes with, as long as it has sufficient power for everything I need. If I want 350+ HP it's going to be in a sports car.

RWD is only truly justified on sports cars as long as said sports car has a monster engine to spin the wheels mid-corner. Apart from that, I can not think of a good reason to use RWD. Maybe mechanics prefer to work on the "easier-to-fix/diagnose" RWD vehicles but that could just be laziness too.

The new X was obviously not geared towards the enthusiast crowd but I could say the same for the Cherokee. Just as many soccer moms will be driving that, totally oblivious to it's off-road abilities, as they will with the new X.

The off-road enthusiasts will only be happy when a manufacturer makes a RWD/4WD, 400+ HP, 400+ ft-lbs, locking diff, solid axles, 37" Mickey Thompson's and 8+ inch leaf springs. All bow to the super off-roader that will make the Flex look like an F150 on the sales charts.

 

[EX-SV]

When can I see the 2011 Explorer at a Ford dealer?

 

[gmanpaint]

Not everybody lives in a big city with paved roads with drainage and potholes being the main concern of what your ride needs to handle, Truck people live in the rural world. Try to talk city slicker **** to a cowboy and your gonna get the horns. Try to talk a farmer out of his capable work truck for a FWD car, and he will plow you into the ground. Try to talk a blue collar laborer to give up his truck with a live axle and a hauling load weight of a thousand lbs or more, and he will cover you with earth.

Front-wheel drive vehicles sometimes have a problem with torque steer. When the vehicle is accelerating at a certain speed, the steering can effected. This occurs because the engine is connected to the steering column. Rear-wheel drive vehicles do not have this same issue, due to the motor being located in a different place in the vehicle.



With that being said. You can go with this.....

Or you can go with that...

You can go with this.....

Or you can go with that....

You can be saved by this......

Or you can be saved by that...

 

[Rick]

What advantage does RWD have over FWD?

Better ask every police department in the country which has always spec'd RWD over FWD for their patrol vehicles.

 

[thaywood]

Advantages of Rear-wheel Drive


Rear-wheel drive vehicles are made to perform. Their advantages include easier acceleration and braking, a smoother ride, and more control over the vehicle due to an even weight balance. Many service vehicles, including police cars, are rear-wheel drive. Additionally, all race cars require the performance abilities and balance associated with rear-wheel drive.

Rear-wheel-drive automobiles have been called safer vehicles due to their overall balance and drivability. This drivetrain allows the driver to feel like he has a large amount of control over the vehicle.

Towing and being able to pull someone out of a ditch in an emergency situation, knowing I can get my family out of a weather disaster (high water, deep snow, downed trees) is tops on my list. You will get stuck trying to climb over a parking curb at the mall. The street plow will block you in your own driveway. Hows that for a couple things different? But wait, there's more


Front wheel drive advantages
The two main advantages of a front-wheel drivetrain are fuel efficiency and traction.
In a front-wheel drive vehicle, the engine and differential are located in the front end. The engine filters all of its power through the differential into the front wheels, which creates a pulling effect. This will allow for better traction of a lighter vehicle, with thinner tires, but also cant get through deep snow being lower to the ground as almost all FWD vehicles are low profile. This type of vehicle has less weight in the back, and is usually smaller, due to most major parts being located under the hood. This produces a more
fuel efficient vehicle. You save on gas, but you give up the confidence of a truck and what a truck can do for you.

Not everybody lives in a big city with paved roads with drainage and potholes being the main concern of what your ride needs to handle, Truck people live in the rural world. Try to talk city slicker **** to a cowboy and your gonna get the horns. Try to talk a farmer out of his capable work truck for a FWD car, and he will plow you into the ground. Try to talk a blue collar laborer to give up his truck with a live axle and a hauling load weight of a thousand lbs or more, and he will cover you with earth.

Front-wheel drive vehicles sometimes have a problem with torque steer. When the vehicle is accelerating at a certain speed, the steering can effected. This occurs because the engine is connected to the steering column. Rear-wheel drive vehicles do not have this same issue, due to the motor being located in a different place in the vehicle.



With that being said. You can go with this.....

Or you can go with that...

You can go with this.....

Or you can go with that....

You can be saved by this......

Or you can be saved by that...

Ya beat me to it. Excellent.

 

[thaywood]

What advantage does RWD have over FWD? When 4x4 is needed, what advantage does the Jeep have over the Ex then?

I'm trying to think of one thing your '94 does better than a '11 and then only thing I can think of is.............

EDIT: What "capabilities" is the new Explorer lacking?

Let's see, FWD = Torque steer, understeer, too much front overhang, odd dash-to-axle ratio, front wheel arches too close to the leading edge of the front door, wheels too close to center of the vehicle, front-biased uneven weight distribution contributing to poor handling dynamics, flimsy and fragile front suspension and drivetrain parts, reduced towing capacity due to unibody and fragile FWD drivetrain, reduced payload capacity for same reasons, diminished handling dynamics and ride quality due to FWD uneven weight distrubution, difficult to work on and expensive to maintain drivetrain, front-biased AWD system with no low-range transfer case...basically a big wrong-wheel-drive station wagon. My '94 will do prety much everything better than the '11 Flexplorer, except possibly use gas. I do get 19mpg, but that's because I commute 80 miles a day. I'll let you know when I find a Flexplorer stuck in a ditch and my old, outdated, true 4x4 Explorer pulls the piece of $h!t out of said ditch.

 

[Rick]

When can I see the 2011 Explorer at a Ford dealer?

I believe they'll be at most dealers in January. At least that's what the manager at the Wickenburg, AZ Ford Dealer told me today... Char and I went their to test drive a 2011 Fiesta. We weren't too impressed. We'll go back when the new Focus comes out which is also supposed to be next month.

 

[edge929]

For a police cruiser/interceptor I would take AWD over anything. Better acceleration/traction and cornering in unfamiliar and/or unexpected roads (during chases for example).

@gman
When I think performance, SUVs do not come to mind, in fact I would be much more likely to think of a car before a heavy SUV, V8 or otherwise. Most vehicles today have a very close 50/50 weight distribution so the balance point is moot. Not all race vehicles are RWD. Rally cars come to mind. I'm no import fan but you'll need nothing short of a 400HP LS2 to beat an AWD STi off the line. Driver skill equal, an AWD vehicle can easily keep up with an equally powerful RWD vehicle (Viper/Vette versus STi/Skyline for example)

I grew up driving nothing but RWD, in fact I've really never driven FWD as a daily driver. It's all been RWD or AWD. Most of this growing up was on a farm in the Midwest, I just happen to live in the city these days. Most farmers rely solely on pick-up trucks, not SUVs. They don't buy them because they're RWD, they buy them because they're 4WD/AWD and have hauling/towing abilities. Towing is just subject to traction, engine power and frame strength.

As of right now, Ford's only market for the 2011 X is North America where 90% of its inhabitants have access to paved roads. If that weren't the case, everybody would be driving super off-road rigs.

With that said, I enjoy my RWD (2WD) Ranger on rainy days and snowy parking lots