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New GT-40 'P' Headers in Summit

LowdPypes

Elite Explorer
Joined
October 6, 2001
Messages
847
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City, State
Wilmington, NC
Year, Model & Trim Level
'98 Mountaineer
So I break open the new summit yesterday and, in their new products section, I see some Ford Motorsport Headers for the GT-40 and GT-40"p" heads. They are shorty style and available in ceramic coated or not. Are these the same FMS ones that have been available the whole time or are these new? They look alot less restrictive but will they fit on the 98's?
 



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I don't see an EGR fitting in the pic. So I don't think they'd be any different than the GT40 Headers (on an X, at least). Would they?
 






what are the part #'s? (i will cross-reference them)
 






FMS-M-9430-P50
 






yea, those are the same p headers they used to make. then they discontinued them. i guess now they have started making them again. they are not in the 2002 FRPP catalog, but may be in next years' issue.

i never did understand why they disco'ed the P headers, and kept making the 96 models. seems they should have done it the other way around, as they would have sold alot more 97-up headers than just 96's.:confused:
 






James.. they dont have the EGR tube on them, right?
 






yea, they do (or did). the P50/51's are for the 97 up and have EGR fitting. the E50/51's are for the 96 (like ours) and have no EGR fitting. im pretty sure it wont have the tube, just the fitting on it. you re-use your old tube (not exactly sure on this, just "pretty" sure.)
 






take a look at these...

Dead Link Removed
 






man, i dont know about those. they list 96-98, and then list 96-00. there are no pix. seems real fishy to me...

awhile back, i had local speed shop call JBA and Flowtech looking for me some headers.

JBA rep said he had none, but could recommend a # that would "work".

Flowtech said simply, "nope".

more info is needed.
 






While I have both you guys in the same thread... where does the EGR tube go from the header? I know it goes up to that thermostat lookin thing.. but where does it go from there? I'm assuming back to the intake somehow.

The reason I am asking is because when I do my swap, I'm replacing everything from my '96 to the '99 except block, heads, intake, manifold, etc.

So where does the EGR fit into this. If I have my '96 air intake, TB, and all that.. would I still need to have the EGR hooked up on the '99 5.0?
 






ok, on the 99, the EGR will be a tube that goes from the exhaust manifold to the elbow the throttle body mounts onto (i THINK, trying to remember). but, none of this will matter. the 96 computer will not work with the 97-up EGR system. the 96 GT-40 style (internal EGR) has a Pressure Feedback EGR (PFE), while the 97-up GT-40p's have a Differential Pressure Feedback system (DPFE).

quoting my Haynes manual...
96 5.0's have PFE system. This system relies upon the PCM for EGR control. the PCM calculates the desired flow of exhaust gases into the combustion chamber and subsequently controls the EGR valve position with the EGR vacuum regulator (EVR) using an analog voltage signal or duty cycle (On/Off time).

97-up 5.0's have DPFE system. this operates similar to the PFE except it monitors the pressure drop across the orifice allowing for a more precise measurement of the exhaust gas pressures.

easy way out: get a chip burned with an EGR delete, and dont use EGR. im sure someone will come on here saying how stupid i am for suggesting this, but it is the simplist way. also, your not gonna start killing tons of trees by not running EGR. it plays only a very small role in total polutant output of your motor.
 






So because I have the "P" heads, I'm going to have to deal with this EGR B.S. one way or another?

I was hoping I would just put my old headers on and since my TB and computer doesn't have the ability to run the recirculation deal, I wouldn't have to worry about it.

But I'm wrong? There's more to the "P" heads than just the spark plug angle?? Damn it. Would I be better off putting my GT-40 heads on the '99 5.0?
 






yea, using the GT-40 heads would solve the issue. or, like i said, you could get a chip programmed with an EGR delete. you could run it as is, but it would throw a check engine light. no big deal, as a strip of electrical tape over the light would solve this.:D

and yes, there is more to it than plug angle. basically, from what i understand, the 96 computer controls EGR function in a different way than the 97-up. dont take my word as final, and i suggest you get a 2nd opinion.

there are many, many stangs out there with headswaps and no EGR. i have seen a few threads on the stang corral were a couple of guys in Cali. were running no EGR and still passed smog. like i said, it is not the be all/end all smog part. it would be better to have it, but you may pass emissions without. best bet would be to seek out a mustanger with GT-40p's and see what they did.

if it were me, i would take my GT-40's, have them "cleaned up" with new springs etc., and slap 'em on the new motor. but, thats just me, and you need to weigh all your options. you could sell your GTp's for about the same $$$ it would take to do a mild rebuild of the GT's. might as well go through them while thier off the motor. this would basically put you back at "new motor" status with little/no extra expense.
 






some people think the p means different things. For me, and what I am doing, it means pain-in-the-ass but my stang buddy up the road still beleives it means performance. Running the 1/4 at 9.8, I usually don't argue with him too much though. I am going to buy the new headers from summit and just have done whatever it takes to get them on there, whether welding in EGR valves or whatever. It must be done... that's my bottleneck right now.
 






Hope you guys don't mind a dumb question..but are the ports coming out of our 96 5.0L heads oval, round or rectangular shaped? What about approximate diminsions? Thanks...Mike
 






they are rectangular shaped. measuring from the gasket, i got this...

Height- 1.72 inches

Width- 1.29 inches

hope this helps. and remember, gasket will not be dead on exactly what the actual port size is, but should be very close.
 












I wish... between work and the house, I haven't had too much time to play with BBX. She got a whole new front end a couple weeks ago which set me back about a grand... hopefully this project will kickoff again in a month or so.... sorry not so helpful.
 









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when I said front end, I meant suspension crap. I was getting mad vibrations at +30 mph... after 2 alignments, balancing and replacing a hub, I said screw it, and decided to replace everything in the front end. New upper/lower ball joints and arms, new pass/driver hubs, axles and seals. What a mess.... all that money that could have gone into new headers and fuel system. Oh well, fix or repair daily, right?

"Yes, I drive the million dollar Mountaineer." hehe
 






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