Nitrous for the first time....

[Dono]

Hows your driving experience going thru the traps 4pointslow?

I'd think an explorer almost redlining in top gear is an experience on its own.

Based on 4pointslows experiences, gearing, and chassis mid 12s would be plenty scary.
I'd be happier than a pig in crap if I ever touched mid to high 12s in my explorer. That's crazy fast in an old explorer as far as I'm concerned. You guys have knackers of steel.

 

[1996BLKBauer]

Hows your driving experience going thru the traps 4pointslow?

I'd think an explorer almost redlining in top gear is an experience on its own.

Based on 4pointslows experiences, gearing, and chassis mid 12s would be plenty scary.
I'd be happier than a pig in crap if I ever touched mid to high 12s in my explorer. That's crazy fast in an old explorer as far as I'm concerned. You guys have knackers of steel.

“If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough.”

- Mario Andretti....

 

[4pointslow]

Traps

Hows your driving experience going thru the traps 4pointslow?

I'd think an explorer almost redlining in top gear is an experience on its own.

Based on 4pointslows experiences, gearing, and chassis mid 12s would be plenty scary.
I'd be happier than a pig in crap if I ever touched mid to high 12s in my explorer. That's crazy fast in an old explorer as far as I'm concerned. You guys have knackers of steel.

I go through the traps in 4th, I still have 5th gear (O/D). lol.
I have to say that the faster you go, the shorter the experience is. You pass the traps and then it's like, oh, it's over now. Then you get your time slip and it's like, hell yeah! Then you post it on Explorer Forum and Facebook. Then you start thinking, what can I do to make it faster....

 

[rocket 5979]

But in all seriousness, If I did all forged components, head studs, new fuel pump, ect, ect. I could probably make close to 700hp on Nitrous.. I know a lot of mustang guys go real big with the 5.0, so I have a ton of help as far as that goes. Even if I just start out on small shot, I can always work my way up to a big shot for more power later, I just want the foundation of the engine to be solid, that's all.

Ok, I decided to make a post over here since I mentioned in the other forum that I used to be a regular over here a long time ago. So, here goes.

On a stock 302 Windsor based motor regardless of what internals you put into it, ARP hardware throughout the engine, the most badass fuel system imaginable, you will not make 700hp with a mostly stock engine and have it last any longer than the dyno pull to tune it. It's not a matter of, "Well, maybe if I baby it, then it will live". The simple fact is that is entirely too much for the engine block, period. Let alone that to get to 700hp, you would have to be throwing one hell of a juicy wetshot at it.

I am one of those Mustang guys you refer to, and I guarantee if you asked one of us again, you would find that there was a key point you missed when we mention making 700hp on a Windsor-based 5.0 engine; probably an aftermarket block amongst other things.

Now, if we were talking about the new Coyote 5.0 DOHC 4v engine, which is nothing like the Windsor 5.0 whatsoever, then yes those will easily handle 700+rwhp without unbolting the oil pan or cam covers. Bear in mind that these engines, while both are Ford motors exhibiting virtually identical displacement, could not be further apart when it comes to the design, material, and component differences.

 

[4pointslow]

5 point ohhh

Yea,
What rocket 5979 said is true.
The 5.0 motors are two completely different engine designs.
The older pushrod block that was found in 4 door explorers (and Mustangs) was known for breaking at about 500HP or higher.
The newer 5.0 was never in an explorer so you would be in uncharted territory trying to get it in the engine compartment.

But 450HP might get you a 12.5 in a 1/4 mile if you can get traction.

 

[Mr.Blue]

I'd also add that the 450hp=12.5 can be a little misleading.....D/A will play a role even though you're bringing your own atmosphere and nobody ever seems to mention stall converters? That will be one of the big factors also.........and how much the truck actually weighs in race mode...hard to believe it would be 4500..........gearing/tire size and the actual tire...slick, DR or ET street style?.............get the weight/stall/chassis/tire situation figured out before you go on a huge horsepower hunt........be cool to see more drag x/mountys!

 

[rocket 5979]

I'd also add that the 450hp=12.5 can be a little misleading.....D/A will play a role even though you're bringing your own atmosphere and nobody ever seems to mention stall converters? That will be one of the big factors also.........and how much the truck actually weighs in race mode...hard to believe it would be 4500..........gearing/tire size and the actual tire...slick, DR or ET street style?.............get the weight/stall/chassis/tire situation figured out before you go on a huge horsepower hunt........be cool to see more drag x/mountys!

Of course with drag racing there are too many variables to account for before simply making a few passes at the strip to see what ET you put down. However, when most anyone quotes an estimated ET for a given vehicle and power level, it is assumed that traction will not be a major issue, the vehicle won't be carrying a ton of gear inside, and that the driver knows what they are doing. A 450rwhp 4dr Explorer would have a solid chance of clicking off a mid 12 second ET in a normal DA (read: not Everest but not a mineshaft either). It's a pretty reasonable expectation.

Curb weight for the Sports usually hovers around 3,800lb and the 4 doors at about 4,400-4,600 depending. Don't confuse this with GVW.

 

[4pointslow]

Sport weight

For what it is worth, my sport has the Automatic 4WD so it has extra weight that a 2WD wont have. My sport is also a 1998, I use a drive on scale at MapleGrove Raceway and my truck weighed in at 4505lbs last year with 3/4 full fuel tank and me in it. I plan to check the weight again on May 3rd.

There definitely is a lot of variables, I ran my 12.93's in December and in May it might be more like 13.4 due to temperature increases, atmospheric pressure changes, etc.

I have two programs, Dyno Sim 5 and Drag Sim 5 that are fun for playing around with horsepower numbers and stuff like that. You can build an engine in Dyno Sim and import it to Drag Sim to see what it would run. There are things you can change like weight and wind drag etc. Of course nothing is better than actually running your vehicle for real.

 

[vroomzoomboom]

for what its worth
mine, 98 sport 5L with a 4406 case in it, weight 4340, with 3/4 tank of gas without me in it.
the old set up was stock block and internals, with a stock 87-93 mustang cam, 42 injectors, 255 fuel pump, m90 supercharger in it (8-9 pounds of boost), mild porting on heads and lower intake, TMH's and a tune, no stall, shift kit, and factory 4.11's ran best of time 15's at around 88 or so MPH. then same set up, but with a 2 1/2 exhaust pulled a 255 horse and i think 330 torque (but had the wrong tune because it shifted into o/d around 5200 RPM) they said it was climbing on the hp, but i told them to get off it at around 5600. so how much more it would have made is a mystery because i have once again changed all of it.
the new set up is way wilder then the old one, and i still have doubts of it being in the 12's or low low 13's

 

[1996BLKBauer]

Anything is better then what I got in my current rig, had 3/4 tank of gas, 31 inch tires, a lot of extra weight, and no power modifications, unless a K&N air filter counts, lol, I got a 18.108 at 76MPH, so If I could get sub 15 second quarter ion my project truck, I would be happy, although a 10 second Explorer will be my ultimate goal, even if it is a Twin Turbo Coyote 5.0 in a 3rd gen, it will happen.

 

[rocket 5979]

Anything is better then what I got in my current rig, had 3/4 tank of gas, 31 inch tires, a lot of extra weight, and no power modifications, unless a K&N air filter counts, lol, I got a 18.108 at 76MPH, so If I could get sub 15 second quarter ion my project truck, I would be happy, although a 10 second Explorer will be my ultimate goal, even if it is a Twin Turbo Coyote 5.0 in a 3rd gen, it will happen.

How about you concentrate on getting to 12's first bud. Saying you will hit 10's, before your truck is even throwing up sub-15 second ET's is putting the cart before the horse. Are 10's doable with the right combo? Of course! But gain a bit more experience before making such large claims. You will need the perspective that it provides if this project is to succeed.

 

[1996BLKBauer]

How about you concentrate on getting to 12's first bud. Saying you will hit 10's, before your truck is even throwing up sub-15 second ET's is putting the cart before the horse. Are 10's doable with the right combo? Of course! But gain a bit more experience before making such large claims. You will need the perspective that it provides if this project is to succeed.

I completely agree! But my end goal is absolutely crazy, which is fine, I'll get there, I'm still hunting down an engine and trans, possibly a whole truck for parts, because I will need a little bit more then the engine and transmission

 

[Dono]

Rocket, what et before you need a full cage?

Beyond the cost of the motor and trans, I can't imagine what else (including massive costs) would be required for the chassis.

I can't even imagine how tech inspection would go unless you have completely gutted and lowered your truck. If you try to retain 4x4 for the launch, I can't even imagine what would happen to the front drive train. Maybe you can shed every ounce of weight possible, lower it, and make it happen as a 2 wheel drive vehicle?

That being said, I would absolutely love to see an explorer body hit the 10's. I'm really looking forward to the progression.

 

[rocket 5979]

Rocket, what et before you need a full cage?

Beyond the cost of the motor and trans, I can't imagine what else (including massive costs) would be required for the chassis.

I can't even imagine how tech inspection would go unless you have completely gutted and lowered your truck. If you try to retain 4x4 for the launch, I can't even imagine what would happen to the front drive train. Maybe you can shed every ounce of weight possible, lower it, and make it happen as a 2 wheel drive vehicle?

That being said, I would absolutely love to see an explorer body hit the 10's. I'm really looking forward to the progression.

For NHRA a roll bar a required for anything quicker than 11.99et. However, not many of us street car guys follow that. We either go to the track and make half passes until the launch, shifting, etc are ironed out and then make a full pass or two before getting booted.

Some of the more major items needed to make this happen, not including labor:

-Engine and trans ~$10k
-Power adder (nitrous $1k, turbo system $5-7k)
-Fuel system $1 - $1.5k
-Sticky tires $500
-Beefier axle shafts $750-1k
-Suspension components ~$500-1k
-Customer tune & flash tuning device $750

That is just for starters, too. There will be other ancillary items too that will probably bump total cost by an additional 15-20%. Going fast and doing it right without cobbling something together that will either tear itself apart or kill you adds up quick when it comes to accounting for planning, finances, and effort involved.

 

[1996BLKBauer]

the plan is to go as fast as I can go with a 2 wheel drive Explorer sport, which will be for driving every day, playing around, and generally just beating the snot out of it, one I exceed my time goal of 14-15 seconds, and keep it reliable, I will just play around with it and save for a good shell, most likely a 3rd gen, a motor, and trans, then go crazy with that. I have changed my goals, but I now realize that making a 10 second 2nd gen might not be the best idea, unless I get a better paying job, lol.

Also, does anybody know how the NHRA does the whole fuel cell, and battery relocation with in SUVs? Do I need to make a fire wall that completely blocks off the back half of the truck, or can I make a cover, since the fuel cell will most likely be sunk into the floor a bit.

 

[Dono]

I personally am looking to stay at the limits of the stock block. This will save you a ton of cash, but still is quite expensive(as I'm finding out).
I have read of quite a few guys splitting their blocks at well under that power. Who knows if it was detonation, reving the motor to the moon, etc. Maybe sometimes you do everything right and the block splits...... who knows.

I am rolling the dice on a stock block. Its too expensive to go aftermarket block(at least it is till I trash my stock block and end up throwing away $5000, then ill be calling myself all kinds of names).

Don't forget about needing a torque converter either. You will need higher stall with lots of clutch material to hold up to the load of accelerating all that weight quickly. Then, will the rest of the trans hold up? hopefully.........

I really want you to go nitrous. We don't have anyone here that has done a build bread on install and use of it on our trucks. It would be cool.

Your new goals are much more realistic. As Rocket said, we are all learning at our hobby, and hopefully avoiding catastrophe while we learn.

 

[1996BLKBauer]

I was looking at DART 302 blocks, and That is WAY beyond my budget. I am going to find a low mileage stock block, and work with that. I think instead of going with an entire truck, maybe just piece together the parts I need from trucks in the junk yard. I'm glad there was a list of things I need to get for the truck posted in the modified part of the 2nd gen forum, I will use it as a list.

 

[Mr.Blue]

Honestly a dart/R/boss/a4 etc. with some savy shopping will only add $1200-1800 to the initial build if starting from scratch............thats still a hard pill to swallow but worth it down the road.............i'm all about stock block stuff myself being a poor boy lol............the can hold up decent if the tune is right and you dont spin it to hard...........pretty sure nhra moved the roll bar rule to 11.49 not that thats a big deal.............again getting the truck running and to the track is the first step lol..........

 

[Dono]

Check the for-sale forum.
There is what looks like a super nice stock block 347 aluminum headed motor thats a low miler for way less money than you could build one for.

 

[vroomzoomboom]

Check the for-sale forum.
There is what looks like a super nice stock block 347 aluminum headed motor thats a low miler for way less money than you could build one for.

yea, thats spas motor. its a little bit of a drive, but she will ship it on your dime i am sure