Went to the track for the first time with the 5.0!!!!

[techieman33]

stop bickering about the engines. its not important here. the aerodynamics of the explorer is where the disconnect is. everyones perception of what it should do in the 1/4 mile is based upon previous experience in a CAR. this vehicle is a BRICK. i am not sure of when wind resistance pays a major factor, but i'd bet the farm that it starts before 60mph. you need a hell of alot of power to overcome wind resistance. the real reason the 4.6 powered ex's get better times is because of their 2nd gear...the gear in which wind resistance starts to play into the game. i forget the exact numbers, but i do know that the 45% drop in ratio from first to second in the 4r70w is a terrible way to try to increase speed right when you hit that wall of air. THAT is why you will struggle to get into the 14's with a 302 n/a. if you put the 4.6 in front of a 4r70w (in an ex), you would struggle to make 14's there too.

Well said

 

[CDW6212R]

Well Nate, it sounds like you have quite a few good pieces of a big puzzle figured out. Listen to the few people here with the most experience with 302/347 Explorers. You are right that Brad will have the quickest NA 95-01 Explorer soon, and I helped to steer him in that direction.

Most of what's in this thread is comparing apples to oranges. The 2002+ trucks are vastly different. For a NA 4500lbs truck, those have a notable advantage in their trans. The V8 five speeds have similar top four gears to our 4R70W four speeds. Their 2nd gear is about the same as our 1st gear, that's a huge starting line advantage. It helps for towing as well. Leave out boosted trucks, that hurts the five speeds, literally.

Concentrate on what Jay tells you, evidently you have discovered the greatest wealth of knowledge you can for big engine power. Jay Allen is far better at selecting heads, cams, intakes(not air cleaners), headers, exhaust, more than anyone here or there.

The GT40 heads suck, as do the GT40 intake(not air cleaner), and cam and headers. That is my opinion, and I guarantee you that Jay will agree with that. The GT40 heads and intake will produce GT40 302 power on any 302, that means 240-300rwhp basically for normal builds/rpm, with Jay's cam.

If you want better power, you need to greatly increase the airflow of several parts, not just a couple. The TFS heads are about the best choices you can make, the Twisted Wedge heads are the best for an Explorer given the port locations. High Ports would be better, if the ports weren't .800" taller. Toss the intake, find a high rpm short runner intake, and match it with Jay Allen's cam made specifically for that intake, the heads built by him with his valve springs, and bigger headers.

With that kind of combination, then you could see 14's easily with a 302. But I don't think anyone is going to spend that kind of money on a stock 302 shortblock Explorer, or build headers. The exhaust from the cats back can be just fine in an Explorer, there is room. The headers and cat pipes though are serious restrictions to airflow.

A 302 engine isn't choked off so much with the existing headers available, compared to any other V8 or boosted engine. Those headers are not capable of efficiently producing the kind of power the higher flowing engines are. A 400hp 302 from your average strong street Mustang will not produce 350hp in the Explorer with the common headers. That is a massive restriction caused by the lack of space in the engine bay, and the choice of the header makers. They want to make a 1.5" header only and convince you that it's good enough. Fine, it's good enough for them and you. I wouldn't install a 1.5" header on my stock Lincoln LSC(302 HO). That's a shame we have to put up with that, but that's business and the market.

Good luck Nate, I hope you get it done as you want it, and I hope it flies. Regards,

 

[OVERKILL]

Well Nate, it sounds like you have quite a few good pieces of a big puzzle figured out. Listen to the few people here with the most experience with 302/347 Explorers. You are right that Brad will have the quickest NA 95-01 Explorer soon, and I helped to steer him in that direction.

Most of what's in this thread is comparing apples to oranges. The 2002+ trucks are vastly different. For a NA 4500lbs truck, those have a notable advantage in their trans. The V8 five speeds have similar top four gears to our 4R70W four speeds. Their 2nd gear is about the same as our 1st gear, that's a huge starting line advantage. It helps for towing as well. Leave out boosted trucks, that hurts the five speeds, literally.

Concentrate on what Jay tells you, evidently you have discovered the greatest wealth of knowledge you can for big engine power. Jay Allen is far better at selecting heads, cams, intakes(not air cleaners), headers, exhaust, more than anyone here or there.

The GT40 heads suck, as do the GT40 intake(not air cleaner), and cam and headers. That is my opinion, and I guarantee you that Jay will agree with that. The GT40 heads and intake will produce GT40 302 power on any 302, that means 240-300rwhp basically for normal builds/rpm, with Jay's cam.

If you want better power, you need to greatly increase the airflow of several parts, not just a couple. The TFS heads are about the best choices you can make, the Twisted Wedge heads are the best for an Explorer given the port locations. High Ports would be better, if the ports weren't .800" taller. Toss the intake, find a high rpm short runner intake, and match it with Jay Allen's cam made specifically for that intake, the heads built by him with his valve springs, and bigger headers.

With that kind of combination, then you could see 14's easily with a 302. But I don't think anyone is going to spend that kind of money on a stock 302 shortblock Explorer, or build headers. The exhaust from the cats back can be just fine in an Explorer, there is room. The headers and cat pipes though are serious restrictions to airflow.

A 302 engine isn't choked off so much with the existing headers available, compared to any other V8 or boosted engine. Those headers are not capable of efficiently producing the kind of power the higher flowing engines are. A 400hp 302 from your average strong street Mustang will not produce 350hp in the Explorer with the common headers. That is a massive restriction caused by the lack of space in the engine bay, and the choice of the header makers. They want to make a 1.5" header only and convince you that it's good enough. Fine, it's good enough for them and you. I wouldn't install a 1.5" header on my stock Lincoln LSC(302 HO). That's a shame we have to put up with that, but that's business and the market.

Good luck Nate, I hope you get it done as you want it, and I hope it flies. Regards,

Great post!!

 

[ford99_1979]

Hey Nate, like everyone else I can't wait to see what your Explorer will do.

It's funny how things evolve. I didn't plan on racing the truck or taking it to the track (complete greenhorn). Looks like I will have to take my truck to the track now just to indulge everyones curiosity. All I went into this with was the idea of having a powerful daily driver.

Good discussions here.

 

[2000StreetRod]

5r70w?

It's too bad that Ford didn't upgrade the 4R70W to a 5 speed the same way they upgraded the 4R55E to a 5R55E. The geering would be very desirable: 1st=2.84, 2nd=1.99 (2.84*.70), 3rd=1.55, 4th=1.00, 5th=.70
That way the engine could stay more in the upper part of the horsepower curve on the track and the upper part of the torque curve on the street. I wonder what modifications would be required to engage 1st and overdrive at the same time.

 

[Nate_V8]

Yea I'm not looking at spending money into heads and such seeing its just my winter beater.

and yes I definitely agree about jay. He IS the best!

For timeline it will be early next summer, gotta put in some link bar lifters on the mustang and then buying either a SVT lightning or a 03/04 cobra. After that's out of the way, then its time to get to work on the winter beater. I don't have the time right now to rip it apart.

I'm pretty sure though bob makes 1 3/4" headers, that or 1 5/8s. And a 2 3/8s collector is the biggest you can get and I went with those.
Posted via Mobile Device

 

[OVERKILL]

Yea I'm not looking at spending money into heads and such seeing its just my winter beater.

and yes I definitely agree about jay. He IS the best!

For timeline it will be early next summer, gotta put in some link bar lifters on the mustang and then buying either a SVT lightning or a 03/04 cobra. After that's out of the way, then its time to get to work on the winter beater. I don't have the time right now to rip it apart.

I'm pretty sure though bob makes 1 3/4" headers, that or 1 5/8s. And a 2 3/8s collector is the biggest you can get and I went with those.
Posted via Mobile Device

I was under the impression however, that he wouldn't sell you the larger headers?

 

[Nate_V8]

I didn't get the larger primaries, just the bigger collectors
Posted via Mobile Device

 

[Limited02]

Gosh, an 04 DSG Lightning is my dream truck!!!

So Jay Allen seems to be the cam man huh? When I win the lottery, I'll be sure to get a set from him

 

[CDW6212R]

Gosh, an 04 DSG Lightning is my dream truck!!!

So Jay Allen seems to be the cam man huh? When I win the lottery, I'll be sure to get a set from him

Ask Alex what his cams cost for his SOHC 4.6 engine. He had plans for those on the aftermarket TFS heads for his new engine. Jay is very reasonable for custom cams that are billet and far stronger than OEM crap(SADI core). If you do go that route, consider that having him do all of the head work and the cams is much better and usually less than piece-mealing the work from several sources. Regards,

 

[CDW6212R]

It's too bad that Ford didn't upgrade the 4R70W to a 5 speed the same way they upgraded the 4R55E to a 5R55E. The geering would be very desirable: 1st=2.84, 2nd=1.99 (2.84*.70), 3rd=1.55, 4th=1.00, 5th=.70
That way the engine could stay more in the upper part of the horsepower curve on the track and the upper part of the torque curve on the street. I wonder what modifications would be required to engage 1st and overdrive at the same time.

Nice thoughts Dale, you know how the 5R55E developed from the 4R44E. I don't think that could work with the 4R70W due to the different gear designs. I think it's about one trans being a synchronized trans and the other isn't. I can't explain it, but Chris(Glacier) could I'm sure. Night,

 

[Nate_V8]

Actually a DSG lightning is what I'm getting to match my 85 when I take it to the drag strip

This is what I forsee