No wipers, interior lights or 4x4 switch

[PHaTGRoB]

Aha, it's happened again. This time I dismantled the console and unplugged and replugged the connections to the GEM in the full knowledge that it would solve the problem again this time....but it didn't (smugness exit stage left)!
It seems to be intermittent as I went to the car later tonight and the interior light and other features worked properly. Going back just 30 minutes later, they didn't....and still don't, for now. Looks like the battery saver is playing up or maybe the voltage is borderline (at fuse 7 it was reading 12.4-ish V). Therefore I need to check these after a nice big sleep.
The only thing I haven't done is managed to locate the Battery Saver relay. The circuit diagrams Jim sent through say it's behind the centre of the dash but I haven't yet found anything with the correct number of wires and right wire colours connected to it. Once I have this I can link it out as Jim recommended and confirm it's the problem or not. As I have a mans ability for not being able to see things right in front of my nose, any ideas as to it's actual location? Thanks. GRoB.

 

[PHaTGRoB]

Lovely frosty morning today and everything is working again with no input from me (this often improves things!), so it's not caused by low temperature. Looking again at the elec. circuit diagrams, the coil on the Battery Saver relay feeds into the GEM, so I assume that the GEM makes the decision to switch the BS relay and cut the power? Don't yet understand why this cuts the power to the front wipers since they don't seem to have a connection to the BS relay (rear wiper does though). Is the BS relay and integral part of a "relay module" containing other relays?

 

[PHaTGRoB]

At long last, I've found the relay module!!! What a horrendous place for access, tucked up above the left foot rest. Can't really see the wire colours or unmount it at the moment. Anyway, now all I've got to do is find out which relay is the Battery Saver since they are all the same and there's no labelling. Another posting (USA) did show a layout of the module but that was different in that the accessory delay relay was bigger, whereas all mine are identical. Any ideas? I've now given up for the night. GRoB.

 

[PHaTGRoB]

Right, here goes with an update!
I've been upside down in the drivers footwell all evening and have found the Battery Saver relay...I think. With the car systems working properly at the time (as they have done for the past day), I pulled out each of the 7 relays in the Relay Module in turn and checked what stopped working. Great idea but only partially successful.
The relays are arranged in two columns, the left one with 4 and the right one with 3 (the top one missing).
- The top left one is the One-touch Drivers window relay
- The bottom left one is the Dimmer relay.
- The second down on the left I assume is the Battery Saver relay, since removing it has generally the same effect as I have been experiencing - i.e. windows, interior lights, sunroof 4x4 switch failed. However, the wipers still worked! The relay was pretty warm.
- The others; not sure yet.
The wiring diagrams Jim gave me show that the Anti-Theft Relay, Park Lamp Relay, Head Lamp Relay and Accessory Delay Relay are the ones I could not asssign but this was not the case, certainly with the Lamp Relays which sound like they are elsewhere in the vehicle.
The remaining question is why I was experiencing front wiper failure as well as everything else? According to the wiring diagrams, they are not covered by the Battery Saver relay and this was proven by removing the relay and the wipers still working.
Anyway, for now I have swapped the Dimmer and Battery Saver relays to see if I still get the same problem.
Hopefully this will resolve it and I'm ready for the snow that's forecast! If I still, have a problem, I shall look at swapping out the GEM.
So, now everyone knows where the Relay Module is even if I failed to work out what all the relays do! I'll try to post some photos soon.
GRoB.

 

[jcasey007]

Good job finding it

if it is still a problem let me know and I can send you a spare GEM I have kicking around to swap that out

 

[PHaTGRoB]

Thanks for the offer Jim and also for the support throughout. Although my Ex does not exactly match the wiring diagrams you supplied they have been absolutely invaluable. Hopefully the problem has now been resolved but only time will tell. I'll let you know and take you up on the offer if this has not solved it. Now I need to post some photos to help others. Regards. GRoB.

 

[janolsson]

Hey grob
As the washer relay is under the hood in the aux box it might make sense for the wiper relay to be there also ??? Mel found his full of water!!
Big Boo's washer thread

 

[PHaTGRoB]

Jan. It's worth bearing in mind. I certainly don't understand why the wipers stop working with the other kit unless there's a link in the GEM. Mel's thread was extremely useful, since I didn't know there was a relay box down there until I read it. It looks fine and is still fitted in it's original location. I lifted the lid slightly and it seemed dry. GRoB

 

[PHaTGRoB]

Well, me again....this thread is becoming more of a blog!
The Ex is now starting to annoy me (sounds like I have marital issues)! It worked fine all yesterday - no issues at all. Got up early this morning to go to work in the snow...no wipers, interior lights, etc. You know the score by my previous witterings. Anyway, suffice to say with >4" of snow and 1:5 hills to descend and ascend, I'm still at home and have to resolve or just understand this issue once and for all. The battery saver relay clicks when unplugged and replugs suggesting it's actually working OK (I swapped it the other day with the dimmer relay as well). The bit I never understood (and still don't) was that the wipers are not working along with the other bits. When I unplugged the BS relay during testing earlier in the week, the wipers were unaffected. This certainly points to the GEM, since that's the only common component I can see, looking at the wiring diagrams. The wipers are connected to it via a different plug suggesting that the plugs are not the problem. Maybe Jim I'll take you up on your offer of your spare GEM. Would this be for testing or for keeps? How much would you want for it and posting, if so?
In the meantime, for information, see the photo below to show where the elusive relay module is, containing the BS relay. As these postings are starting to become my routine I'll come back with an update later. This is such a small problem but one that prevents use of the Ex in this weather. Having a capable 4x4 and not being able to get out is frustrating and a photo of a torched North Face may appear on here if I don't get it sorted!

 

[jcasey007]

The GEM is yours to keep, PM me your address and I'll post it Monday.

I don't want any money

 

[PHaTGRoB]

That's the big thing about this forum that other forums could learn from - the people are so helpful and friendly. Thanks Jim, I'll PM my address. You're a gent and hopefully I'll be able to return the favour one day. GRoB.

 

[PHaTGRoB]

Captains Log. Stardate.....
Ok, so in the past few days I have spent more time looking into this problem. When the fault has occured I have removed the BS relay and fitted a link across the switched circuit and this has made no difference. This suggests that the BS relay is working properly as has been shown by switching the original one with the Dimmer relay.
However, fuse 27 fed from the BS relay remains without power!
The more I analise the problem, the more I think it is a relay sticking because it will suddenly click on but, once working, doesn't suddenly switch off thankfully. But, if it is a relay, which one. I can't see another on the diagrams that is linked to all the items that fail.
I therefore thought again as to whether it's temperature dependent, since it always seems to occur when it's freezing. Maybe a damp relay is freezing, only to work when the car warms up. I stucka heater in overnight and...lo and behold, a bright shining light (sorry, got a bit seasonal there!)...actually, the interior lights. It's all working OK.
This leads me to think (rare, but not unknown). The heater's not very good at the moment, so probably things are getting a bit damp inside and this is the cause.
Looks like I need to sort that now as well.
Further monitoring is required and I shall report back. Bored yet?
Thanks for listening. GRoB.

This is the Ex's natural habitat if it weren't so cold-shy:

 

[PHaTGRoB]

Well, the use of an electric heater inside the car to keep the frost at bay seems to have done the trick. Each time I go out to it, I expect it to have the problem and for the past day and a half it hasn't and it's -9 out there at the moment. I never thought that pressing the remote and seeing the interior lights come on could be so fantastic, but when it also means the other bits work, it's a massive relief.
Following reading a comment on a thread by one of our transatlantic cousins regarding the GEM and the cold, I had tried early on to sort it using a hairdrier on the GEM, without any success. However, it would seem that they were indeed right and it needed the whole of the interior warming up rather than a single component.
Anyway, now it's working, it again aquited itself brilliantly when descending and then easily ascending our 1 in 5 lane after an additional 4" of snow was dumped on it throughout the night.
It's therefore easy to forgive the Ex it's slight if frustrating misdemeanours! GRoB.

 

[PHaTGRoB]

The latest is that the systems failed again on Monday after loading the Ex up for a snowy trip across the Pennines. We had to return home and change over to our 2wd A4 but the snow was nothing compared to the domesday forecast.
Anyway, it is looking more like the humidity that's causing the problems. We use the Ex for canine transport and the day before had travelled up into the local forest to take the muts for a snowy walk. Soggy dogs got back in afterwards and we retured home. I didn't put the heater in the car and it failed the following day (when the outside temp had risen well above freezing). The following day, the wipers et al stopped working.
Playing around with it yesterday to further investigate the problem, the systems were on and off all the time. I returned the heater to the inside (set on low) and after a while it's up and running again and has stayed that way.
I also did some investigations as to the relay locations and it doesn't always tie in with the '96 diagrams that Jim kindly sent me. For example, the Fuel Pump relay should be in the Power Dist Box but is in the Relay Box under the Air Filter Housing (Aux Box 2?). So, I've labelled some photos with the relay locations that I know to date and those are below. Can anyone fill in the blanks?

Thanks. GRoB.

 

[mike213735]

GRoB,

I have a 2000 North Face and I am sure I don't have the relay box in the back. I have had trouble with the interior light switches since I got the car. Took me this long to work out which one and bypass it. All the time my trusty Lexus LS400 has been sat out in -8, not been started for a week and then starts on the button. It is crap in snow though, hence the purchase of an Ex.

I've also got a road legal quad bike that has been refusing to start for a month now, so I thought I'd use today to sort it.....It was a broken spark plug, I mean physically broken in half....New plug and then a 2 hour ride out .

I think this is the first day in 3 weeks of ownership that the Ex hasn't tied up my time

Don't you just love them!
Mike

 

[PHaTGRoB]

Mike. I have done OK with the Ex for most of the my year's ownership but, now that the weather is upon us, I am needing to grovel around in the cold and damp. For 14 years since we moved here I've been saying that I'm going to build a garage and I'm still lying on the floor looking up at the rain as it descends!
At long last though, I am now pretty confident that the GEM and it's connections are the issue that's causing the problems with the wipers, et al. A swift tap and the systems come back on line. Jim's GEM unfortunately seems to have been lost in the chaotic Christmas post, so I'll contact others to get a suitable replacement which will hopefully resolve the issue.
Once this problem and the ABS are sorted, the Ex is back on the road...till the next fault.

 

[exploder96]

I am saving all these post that you and jim had this subject. I am having the EXACT. problem you are.Most of the Ford dealers had said check the relays and then replace the GEM. I can get one here in town for 35 bucks at a junk year.New they are around 300.00 US.Funny thing.When the ignition is on but engine of the wipers work great.As soon as I start the engine nothing.Dome lights,windows 4x4 switch nothing no matter what.

 

[PHaTGRoB]

Hi Exploder96. I've not spent much time on the wiper, domelight, etc. issue for the past week, aside from putting the key in the ignition and trying it at various times. A light tap on the lowest of the 3 side GEM connectors seems to do the trick and the wipers et al then all come in to play, for a time. Although your issue seems to occur less randomly than mine, the cause must be similar. I intend to look at this again properly at the weekend and will update this "War and Peace" effort with my findings (there's the optimist in me - assuming I actually discover something tangible). GRoB.

 

[exploder96]

Let me know what you come up with.Something of interest(maybe). heat seems to play a part in the problem.If the heater is on the floor for awhile the wipers work more often than not.HUM?

 

[PHaTGRoB]

Hi. You're right that heat (maybe humidity too?) plays a part in this. It is definitely centred around the GEM too. This weekend I'm checking wiring/connector/GEM integrity and am hoping for a Eureka moment! If you find anything, post it so I can use your findings to test on mine. Ta.