not bashing anyone, in response to jeep-ex. comparo

[Stephen]

Originally posted by Majisto
Learn the roads instead of relying on technology Unless you're driving in a new city for the first time, get to know the roads and use the world's most powerful computer in the world, your brain

I will never let technology answer questions for me. I am even against electronic throttle/braking/steering systems which has scared me away from the new Maxima and Accord. I like direct linkage so that when it breaks, I can fix it easily, and not worry about electrical problems. Again, I am old-fashioned... I don't even think putting kids in front of a DVD system is a good idea. Maybe playing 20 questions and all sorts of family games is not important anymore...

I know the roads around here VERY well, I drive all day every day. Still, having the navigation in an unfamiliar area is just SO helpful. Sometimes you just can't plan, and if the technology is there, why do it? Why not enjoy these new gadgets to make our lives easier. Geesh, I'm 60 years old and I'm all for the little screen that'll make my life easier.

As for the DVD entertainment center, do you have kids? Its not that easy trust me. There's a girl in my office that has an Expedition with one of these things, and she says she doesn't know how she ever lived without it. She actually ENJOYS family trips now, EVERYONE has more fun because of this device, if thats the case, why is it bad?

 

[Majisto]

Originally posted by Stephen
Okay, I tracked down some stats, but I'm still missing the new Accord.

The current Taurus Duratec V6 with 200hp and 200lb/ft of torque will do 0-60 in 8.9 seconds with a 1/4 mile of 18.1. The Camry which has 192 hp and 209 lb/ft will do 0-60 in 8.2 seconds and a 1/4 in 16.5 seconds. I'll post the new Accord when I find it.

Ok that's it, magazine racer, i'm shutting you down 18.1 1/4 mile? Bullc**p. Explain how 200 Horse and 200 torque would make a 3,200 lb. vehicle run that slow of a 1/4? Stop quoting numbers. It's real-worlds experience again that counts.

I have literally seen with my own eyes Duratecs running consistant low 16 second 1/4s. Hell, I ask you again how I can hang and even beat through 1st and 2nd gear, my friend's 200 Hp Accord, with a 155 Horsepower V-6?!

 

[Stephen]

Originally posted by Majisto
Btw, there are less Camrys and Accords because there are fewer of them on the road Yes I will give TOYota some credit, I have a friend with a 150K mile Camry and the suspension is still fairly decent for its age, and the tranny is fairly smooth. The engine is a pile, and everything else sucks, but it doesn't rattle at least Well, except for the loose shock on the passenger rear area. I'm just waiting for that to fall off The chassis on the Camry is incredibly solid, but is not setup at all for sport in any way. The Taurus and Accord at least try to be sporty.

Actually the JD Power ratings are per every 100 cars, so sample size has no bearing.

And the Camry and Accord have outsold the Taurus since 1996, so the numbers are fairly close

The numbers I posted were the only ones I could find, from Daniel Heuraud who is usually pretty slow, so I wouldn't be surprised if you could come up with a better time.

I'm still lookin

 

[Majisto]

Originally posted by Stephen
Actually the JD Power ratings are per every 100 cars, so sample size has no bearing.

And the Camry and Accord have outsold the Taurus since 1996, so the numbers are fairly close

The numbers I posted were the only ones I could find, from Daniel Heuraud who is usually pretty slow, so I wouldn't be surprised if you could come up with a better time.

I'm still lookin

Nono, use your brain, not the numbers Can you honestly tell me how a 200 Horsepower/200 Torque car can pull off a 18 second 1/4 when it weighs 3,200 lbs. and has a drag co-effcient equal to, if not better than the sedans in its class.?

 

[Stephen]

Then the question comes to mind, why does 0-60 matter in a family sedan, mainly because I can't find another source for numbers LOL.

 

[Stephen]

Originally posted by Majisto
Nono, use your brain, not the numbers Can you honestly tell me how a 200 Horsepower/200 Torque car can pull off a 18 second 1/4 when it weighs 3,200 lbs. and has a drag co-effcient equal to, if not better than the sedans in its class.?

It would be easy actually, poor power band and an inefficient drivetrain that looses much of its power before it gets to the wheels.

 

[SaleenEXP]

and it wasn't just my friends V6 Accord, it's others I've been in or had rice boys race me in. They are not fast at all for their ahhhh "VTEC" shmetec crap to get 200hp. It doesn't have the low down torque of the Taruess.

I've seen 6.5 for a Manual new Accord, but it doesn't feel like it, you can tell you moving fast but you don't get the press you to the seat acceleration you would think 6.5 seconds would give you.

A Maxima with a 6 speed will run about 6.1 seconds to 60 and press you like 3 times as hard into the seat b/c of its torque band.

As for the M45, it looks a little funky to me, I'd rather take the G35.

The Acura TL Type S is nice also, as my moms boyfriend bought a new one to keep miles off his Avalanche which was on lease and he's already like 12 0r 20,000 miles over the limit. The Type S is very quick and pulls hard as hell, it has a very broad torque band, it holds peak torque from about 3,000 to almost 5,000 rpm and the quality is awesome.

 

[Stephen]

Well its not the power band, peak torque is at 4400 RPM, same as the Camry, but I do agree 9 lbs wouldnt make that much difference.

 

[Majisto]

Originally posted by Stephen
It would be easy actually, poor power band and an inefficient drivetrain that looses much of its power before it gets to the wheels.

Well considering that just about every car today has a decent drivetrain with no more than 20% drivetrain loss, I would say what you said doesn't matter. Oh, and the the torque curve of a Duratec is smooth as a baby's butt Not something I can say of any Honda engine

The AX4N transmission in the Taurus is a piece of junk, I will agree. Ford's FWD drivetrain platform is about one design generation behind Honda's, but it does not eat up much more horsepower. It just doesn't last as long If properly taken care of, and not neutral dropped, it will last 100K miles easy.

And really, how long do people in this disposable society today, keep cars anyway? Certainly not 150K miles anymore.

 

[Stephen]

Have you driven the new one? I felt it pulled very well.

As for the M45, its a totally different class than the G, the G would be way too small for me, the M is a little small as well, I'd have to get a Q ship if I went to Infiniti and its just a barge . I agree the look of the M is odd, but like I said, gotta embrace new things.

I'm inclined to say that the "seat of the pants" portion is all in your head, if you're going 0-60 in 6.1 seconds, the backward force is the same...

As for the TL, my son is looking in the entry level luxury class and we looked at the TL, nice car, horrible interior, and the TL Type S rode very poorly. Lots of speed in a good looking car at a good price though.

 

[SaleenEXP]

Stephan, at least the LS400 is fast lol. I've driven my friends granparents car (the kid you pry saw me talking about before that had the lifted Denali and now has an 03' 2500 diesel Ram), the LS430, it's deceptively fast. It's a beast on the Highway and he's suprised a hell of a lot of kids driving Mustangs or Beemers that didn't realize how fast they are.

 

[Stephen]

The LS is deceptively fast you're very right. You do really have to watch the speed because its so smooth. How do your grandparents like their 430?

As for a disposable society, my Explorer has 130k, and my Lexus has 120k. I traditionally don't keep cars this long, but the Explorer is driven by my son, and I've had no reason to trade my LS400 in. It still rides as smooth as it always has, looks as good as it ever did. I'd say people are keeping cars even longer now than they used to because they last that much longer.

 

[SaleenEXP]

Another kid I know has the new V6 Accord, that what I was talking about, the best he could pull off was 7.3 seconds to 60, te best I could do was 6.7. It does not feel that fast, you don't get pressed into the seat barely.

now the Maxima on the other hand will slam you into the seat with it''s torque.

You would think cars that ran about the same times would press you as hard, but it's not true. For example an Audi S4 is just only a little quicker than a WRX, but it presses you hard into the seat b/c of it's torque.

I've also been in an Eclipse that ran high 12's at the track yet it barely would throw me into the seat the way a friends 01' Cobra will that only runs about mid 13's stock.

Even that ricer mag (forgot the name) compared a moddified Integra to a GT mustang, they ran about the same 0-60 time, but the Mag agreed the Mustang would pin you to the seat harder, guess that put a dent in ricers minds comming from the mag they worship.

 

[Stephen]

Is that why I've been seeing so many riced out Mustangs nowadays?

Well I definately had a good debate guys, I always enjoy discussing cars with car people. However, you've kept me up far past my bedtime lol.

Take care guys!

 

[X-1]

Man, this thread took a left turn

 

[Majisto]

It is all about torque curves and suspension setups. Many people don't realize how fast my Explorer is until they realize I am upto 60 in a little over 8 seconds The reason being that the Explorer rides high and depth perception is changed because of it. It also has a soft suspension and this can lead to you not feeling the sense of speed as well.

 

[Majisto]

Originally posted by EXPLODER-1
Man, this thread took a left turn

*Laughs* You ain't just whistling Dixie, brother.

Btw, night Stephen. Glad we could have a discussion without any serious flaming going

 

[Stephen]

How do you mean left turn? As long as everyone stays civil (I think we were damn near friendly in this debate lol) there's no harm in a back and forth discussion like this has been. Its when people get childish and decide to take things personally that a thread takes a left turn.

As for the point about the ride hight and the suspension setups, I do agree with what you're saying, but I file that under "in your head", thats the sense of speed, and it varies from person to person. Its not quantifiable.

Now I really am going to bed, really

 

[Stephen]

Originally posted by Majisto
*Btw, night Stephen. Glad we could have a discussion without any serious flaming going

Me too, I really enjoyed it. Best car discussion I've had in quite some time.

Now I'm REALLY going to bed, REALLY!

 

[X-1]

I meant it went from jeep vs explorer, to taurus vs honda, nothing uncivil, just change in topic