Not-even-mortally-wounded rattle | Ford Explorer - Ford Ranger Forums - Serious Explorations

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Not-even-mortally-wounded rattle

E.T.

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So I had the rattle a couple of days ago, got a tow home as the last time I hsd it I just carried on driving and ended up smashing the engine. I ordered new tensioners and the timing kit in anticipation (which I will keep in case as engine is ~200,000 miles). 8 hours' deconstruction later, finding no bits ar all in the oil pan, and I find the source of the rattle. Am I right in assuming that my truck is basically yanking my chain at this point and it's a better idea to just save the timing kit for later?

I also did have a bit of a tappetty noise on the same bank before the rattle started, but the oil was pretty low so I reckon that's done

DSC_0130.JPG
 


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miker104

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When I took mine apart it was the rear one that was toast. Front one was ok. I replaced everything since I ended up taking the engine out
 




E.T.

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How many miles had it done?
 




Drewmcg

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Uhm . . . that looks like your left/driver side head, right? And that's a broken piece of secondary chain guide, probably. Can you verify with a spotlight looking down the length of the chain whether that is correct?

You can replace the left secondary chain/guides without removing either the engine or the transmission. And you need to remove the primary chain to do that job. So you should plan to do both the primary and the left secondary ASAP, before you have a major incident and cook the engine (or at least the left head). With that done, you could wait until you hear a rattle in the right/rear secondary before deciding whether to tackle that one, which is a lot more work.
 




E.T.

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It's a bit from the left front- broke off the top. I have the new guides, just waiting on the timing kit. Having already cooked one engine by ignoring the rattle I'm wise to the risk. I went on a quick drive to town with tensioners replaced and it was a lot better, BUT it definitely lost another bit of guide en route- heard it hit the oil pan! I suppose having all the guides I might as well pre-empt the rear one failing by swapping it out as well. Goodbye two more days of my life:angryfire:
 




E.T.

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Uhm . . . that looks like your left/driver side head, right? And that's a broken piece of secondary chain guide, probably. Can you verify with a spotlight looking down the length of the chain whether that is correct?

You can replace the left secondary chain/guides without removing either the engine or the transmission. And you need to remove the primary chain to do that job. So you should plan to do both the primary and the left secondary ASAP, before you have a major incident and cook the engine (or at least the left head). With that done, you could wait until you hear a rattle in the right/rear secondary before deciding whether to tackle that one, which is a lot more work.
I do have a bit of valve flutter on the left head I think, from the tensioner being worn before the guide started to fail. Not a huge one, but enough to be annoying.
 




Drewmcg

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It's a bit from the left front- broke off the top. I have the new guides, just waiting on the timing kit. Having already cooked one engine by ignoring the rattle I'm wise to the risk. I went on a quick drive to town with tensioners replaced and it was a lot better, BUT it definitely lost another bit of guide en route- heard it hit the oil pan! I suppose having all the guides I might as well pre-empt the rear one failing by swapping it out as well. Goodbye two more days of my life:angryfire:

The other risk is if a big enough chunk of broken chain guide will block enough of the oil sump to starve engine of oil. Hopefully you'd get a flutter of your red OIL warning light on the dash before you have a catastrophic fail . . . .

If you can pull the engine, replace all timing components, re-time, and reinstall engine in two days, you're a far, far better man (or at least mechanic) than I am--which would not surprise me at all!
 




E.T.

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I am honoured by your esteem sir! It was two days' worth of work spread out over three in the end- predominantly because day two was spent chatting with the neighbours and going to the junkyard for a fuel injector I mysteriously lost!

I wouldn't say necessarily a better anything, mind. Determination is a lot of it.. I fixed the bearings and the rear knuckle wobble today. I skip lunch a lot..

Having said all this, knowing the timing is spot on and all the guides are in good order there's still the flutter on the left bank. Do you reckon there could be bits of the old guide anywhere but in the oil pan?? I do get the "check gauge" and oil needle to zero at idle, though it's got better since I dumped half a can of de-gummer through the engine..
 




donalds

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Stupid question did you clean your oil pickup tube
 




Drewmcg

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I've had three 4.0L SOHC 'sploders ('97 2d gen; '02 3rd gen; '10 4th gen), and never had an oil light flutter @ startup with any of them.

I did have two experiences that might be relevant to this problem, however. That oil switch is vulnerable to being bumped/cracked/broken when removing or re-installing the engine. I had to replace one once. And I've also had to repair the wire to that switch once (also vulnerable to damage/heat). As you likely already know, these are not true pressure gauge systems--where there's a range of pressures transmitted to the dash. Instead, its a simple "open/close" circuit: when the pressure hits a certain level, it closes (grounds?) the switch circuit and the oil light goes out.

All of this is to say that if there were a problem with the switch or its single wire, it might cause a flutter. (Though if its the wire, you might expect it to flutter at any time.) You can reach the s witch and replace it with the engine installed, and a Wells or Standard Motor Products part is pretty cheap. Might be worth replacing before you do anything else.

Otherwise, if the light goes out quickly and stays out, I'd say good enough. Maybe switch to full synthetic oil (if you're not already there; I only use it in the winter, cause I'm cheap), for its supposed superior start-up protection.
 




E.T.

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E.T.

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I've had three 4.0L SOHC 'sploders ('97 2d gen; '02 3rd gen; '10 4th gen), and never had an oil light flutter @ startup with any of them.

I did have two experiences that might be relevant to this problem, however. That oil switch is vulnerable to being bumped/cracked/broken when removing or re-installing the engine. I had to replace one once. And I've also had to repair the wire to that switch once (also vulnerable to damage/heat). As you likely already know, these are not true pressure gauge systems--where there's a range of pressures transmitted to the dash. Instead, its a simple "open/close" circuit: when the pressure hits a certain level, it closes (grounds?) the switch circuit and the oil light goes out.

All of this is to say that if there were a problem with the switch or its single wire, it might cause a flutter. (Though if its the wire, you might expect it to flutter at any time.) You can reach the s witch and replace it with the engine installed, and a Wells or Standard Motor Products part is pretty cheap. Might be worth replacing before you do anything else.

Otherwise, if the light goes out quickly and stays out, I'd say good enough. Maybe switch to full synthetic oil (if you're not already there; I only use it in the winter, cause I'm cheap), for its supposed superior start-up protection.
I reckon the switch itself is alright as it only reads low at idle when the engine is warm. I l'd like to raise the idle by 100 rpm or so as a temporary fix but apparently that's impossible..

I'm using Castrol Magnatec 5W30 at present, which despite its claims to stick to the parts is probably a bit thin to start with! Will put some thicker stuff in with when I've done another few hundred miles with the cleaner and see if it stops.

Edit: thicker oil.. Maybe not such a good idea- mentioned elsewhere on the forum that it takes longer to reach the top end of the engine, which is logical. Not mad keen on doing the tensioners and cassettes all over again!
 




E.T.

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Update.. After a few hundred miles with Gumout in it the oil pressure gauge isn't dropping to zero anywhere /near/ as much. Also now more often than not I'll get home and listen to the motor on idle and hear no significant rattle. Checked the timing and compression midweek just to be sure, and both banks are nigh on perfect o_O
 




Joe in NY

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Don't discount a pressure switch failing. We just picked up a generator for cheap and it had a failed pressure switch.

Also, bad news: Ford has a minimum spec of 15psi at idle and these switches are only 5psi. (thank you retards, I mean ford) So the fact that it has in the past and still dropping means you are on borrowed time.
 




E.T.

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I feel like I've been on borrowed time since day one with this truck! Not had a single zero this week- probably worse than the switch being gone as the engine will have been running oil starved. Currently I'm spewing (Australianism) over the sh#tty design of the left bank timing chain tensioner (other thread, gonna modify it. Shouldn't have to). Still, as the saying goes I'd rather push a Ford than drive a Chevy..
 




TechGuru

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Joe in NY

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Thank the germans for the engine!
 




E.T.

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You know that irregular sound of rainwater dripping from a roof after it's stopped? Yeah. From this engine that's valve interference at idle. Oil pressure is insufficient to keep the tensioners tense. May have something to do with the gumout (which has to be fair solved the low oil pressure issue) acting as thinners. Will it thus go away after an oil change? Your guess is as good as mine..
 




donalds

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No it's normal I bought a new engine and it makes noise it's like you can hear the valves snapping shut
 


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donalds

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Here is what mine sounded like at 3000 miles or so
 




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