O/D OFF indicator Light

[lmarkie74]

I have just rebuilt my 5R55W transmission. Before I rebuilt the transmission, most of my indicator lights were out. Check Engine, ABS, Air Bag, etc. I went to a local speedometer shop and had the guy look at it and he discovered whoever had the SUV previously had blocked out the lights instead of fixing the problem. SUV came from South Carolina where they have no emission laws.

Once I reinstalled the instrument cluster, I took the vehicle for a drive. After about 5 miles the O/D OFF indicator started "flickering". Yes.....flickering. While it is flickering, the over drive is not effected. I can turn it off and on. Just have to watch the tachometer and speed. Normal overdrive is about 1500 RPM at 50 MPH.

I have discover other post that mention the O/D OFF indicator is either flashing (like a turn signal) or stays on.

OBDII is showing no codes.

Please help.

 

[TechGuru]

bad wiring somewhere...

 

[imp]

bad wiring somewhere...

@Mark Lammers @TechGuru
The instrument cluster is a microprocessor (computer) based device, having no external access electrically to mess with individual indicator lights; they're controlled digitally through the CAN bus. Purposely designed so we can't extinguish annoying lights, like ABS. Most of them are LEDs, there are but a few regular old light bulbs left in there. For closure, you may likely have to replace the cluster. Hassle there, because of odometer. imp

 

[lmarkie74]

@Mark Lammers @TechGuru
The instrument cluster is a microprocessor (computer) based device, having no external access electrically to mess with individual indicator lights; they're controlled digitally through the CAN bus. Purposely designed so we can't extinguish annoying lights, like ABS. Most of them are LEDs, there are but a few regular old light bulbs left in there. For closure, you may likely have to replace the cluster. Hassle there, because of odometer. imp

I had a cluster repair shop bench test all the bulbs and circuits. All of them work fine. Basically it''s a rebuilt cluster. As close as a replacement you're going to get. I haven't had time, but tomorrow I am going to check for a shorted wired. I'm like you. I believe this is the problem.

 

[lmarkie74]

P0741 Torque Converter Clutch Circuit Performance or Stuck Off. I use Torque Pro for my diagnostic code reader. It did not find it so I used ScanXL. Found it right away. While driving, I cleared the code out and the OD Off light went out. Came back shortly while still driving. Will not flash while just sitting there. Should have checked the solenoids when I was rebuilding it. Thank god its not a hard job other than messy. I'll let you know how it turns out.

 

[TechGuru]

 

[lmarkie74]

Removed Solenoid Block and did a bench resistance test and 12 volt check to all solenoids. All were within the resistance specs to my ATSG manual, including the TFT (transmission fluid temperature sensor) and TCC (torques converter clutch). All 4 shift solenoids and TCC energized strong and loud. Strong hard sound and feeling. PCS A (pressure control solenoid) was strong and loud, PCS B you could barely hear and feel. Same with PCS C.

According to Mitchell Ondemand, In 5th gear PCS A is L/H line pressure, PCS B is High line pressure, PCS C is High line pressure. Would it be possible that the solenoids B and C are not creating high enough line pressure to not cause the torque converter clutch to slip?

 

[imp]

Removed Solenoid Block and did a bench resistance test and 12 volt check to all solenoids. All were within the resistance specs to my ATSG manual, including the TFT (transmission fluid temperature sensor) and TCC (torques converter clutch). All 4 shift solenoids and TCC energized strong and loud. Strong hard sound and feeling. PCS A (pressure control solenoid) was strong and loud, PCS B you could barely hear and feel. Same with PCS C.

According to Mitchell Ondemand, In 5th gear PCS A is L/H line pressure, PCS B is High line pressure, PCS C is High line pressure. Would it be possible that the solenoids B and C are not creating high enough line pressure to not cause the torque converter clutch to slip?

@Mark Lammers
It is my understanding that the Pressure Control Solenoids modify pressure for each gear being shifted to, to allow softer application of clutches and bands under low power demand. The TCC is also a modified apply deal, how it's achieved, I don't know. However,
(bold), the intent of the TCC is not to slip, but rather lock-up tighter than a wang-doodle. How fast it locks up is controlled, to avoid a jolt, but it unlocks fast, and without slip. TC takes care of that jolt. imp

 

[lmarkie74]

@Mark Lammers
It is my understanding that the Pressure Control Solenoids modify pressure for each gear being shifted to, to allow softer application of clutches and bands under low power demand. The TCC is also a modified apply deal, how it's achieved, I don't know. However,
(bold), the intent of the TCC is not to slip, but rather lock-up tighter than a wang-doodle. How fast it locks up is controlled, to avoid a jolt, but it unlocks fast, and without slip. TC takes care of that jolt. imp

So.............I can not tolerate O/D Off light flashing in my eyes. What would you suggest now? The TCC on this solenoid block works fine with 12 volts applied to it and Ohms are within tolerance. I read in another one of your posts you had the same problem and the solenoid block replacement was your cure.

 

[imp]

So.............I can not tolerate O/D Off light flashing in my eyes. What would you suggest now? The TCC on this solenoid block works fine with 12 volts applied to it and Ohms are within tolerance. I read in another one of your posts you had the same problem and the solenoid block replacement was your cure.

@Mark Lammers
I don't think we've established whether or not the TC Clutch is actually functioning. A mechanically failed clutch cannot respond to good inputs from good solenoids. Take the vehicle out on a quiet stretch of highway, start from a standstill, using average acceleration, and carefully watch the tachometer, counting "drops" in speed as shifts occur. First drop is 2nd. gear, 2nd. drop is 3rd. gear, 3rd is 4th. gear, 4th. is 5th. gear, Overdrive. Following that, at perhaps 50 mph, depending on rate of acceleration, a 5th. drop in tach indication is the Torque Converter Clutch engaging. If working properly, a SLIGHT increase in throttle will show NO sudden rise in eng. rpms, as the converter is "locked out". If the tach jumps higher, the TCC is slipping, assuming you saw that 5th. drop in rpms at all. If you did not, the TCC is completely inoperative. imp

 

[lmarkie74]

@Mark Lammers
I don't think we've established whether or not the TC Clutch is actually functioning. A mechanically failed clutch cannot respond to good inputs from good solenoids. Take the vehicle out on a quiet stretch of highway, start from a standstill, using average acceleration, and carefully watch the tachometer, counting "drops" in speed as shifts occur. First drop is 2nd. gear, 2nd. drop is 3rd. gear, 3rd is 4th. gear, 4th. is 5th. gear, Overdrive. Following that, at perhaps 50 mph, depending on rate of acceleration, a 5th. drop in tach indication is the Torque Converter Clutch engaging. If working properly, a SLIGHT increase in throttle will show NO sudden rise in eng. rpms, as the converter is "locked out". If the tach jumps higher, the TCC is slipping, assuming you saw that 5th. drop in rpms at all. If you did not, the TCC is completely inoperative. imp

@imp

I had the Solenoid pack removed and was waiting on a re-manufactured one from ebay. This is rather interesting reading. I enjoy learning these types of mechanical issues.

Not completely sure if I understand. I have taken it out for a test drive after the new solenoid pack and I can see the tachometer drop and feel the shift engagements from 1st to 2nd, 2nd to 3rd, 3rd to 4th, & finally 4th to 5th. Very smooth shifting. Better than my old solenoid pack. At 5th gear, the tachometer doesn't drop or no engagement is felt. O/D OFF light is still flashing.

I'm going to run it this way for awhile until I get time to take the transmission out and replace the Torque Converter. One thing I did learn from rebuilding my own transmission is that I will always replace the Torque Converter with a new one.

 

[TechGuru]

@impOne thing I did learn from rebuilding my own transmission is that I will always replace the Torque Converter with a new one.

Yep and on a manual transmission ALWAYS replace the clutch while the transmission is out.

 

[imp]

@imp

I had the Solenoid pack removed and was waiting on a re-manufactured one from ebay. This is rather interesting reading. I enjoy learning these types of mechanical issues.

Not completely sure if I understand. I have taken it out for a test drive after the new solenoid pack and I can see the tachometer drop and feel the shift engagements from 1st to 2nd, 2nd to 3rd, 3rd to 4th, & finally 4th to 5th. Very smooth shifting. Better than my old solenoid pack. At 5th gear, the tachometer doesn't drop or no engagement is felt. O/D OFF light is still flashing.

I'm going to run it this way for awhile until I get time to take the transmission out and replace the Torque Converter. One thing I did learn from rebuilding my own transmission is that I will always replace the Torque Converter with a new one.

@Mark Lammers
This means the Torque Converter Clutch is not engaging. Since solenoids were replaced, the clutch is likely to blame, although possibility exists for a hydraulic problem in the valve body. Drive it with no TCC as long as you wish, if the flashing light does not prove unbearable. I drove mine home from a vacation trip 2000 miles, ignoring the Ford Tech's saying it would wreck the transmission. Replaced solenoids, TCC good again. Bear in mind, my code was TCC Solenoid inoperative. imp

 

[TechGuru]

@Mark Lammers
This means the Torque Converter Clutch is not engaging. Since solenoids were replaced, the clutch is likely to blame, although possibility exists for a hydraulic problem in the valve body. Drive it with no TCC as long as you wish, if the flashing light does not prove unbearable. I drove mine home from a vacation trip 2000 miles, ignoring the Ford Tech's saying it would wreck the transmission. Replaced solenoids, TCC good again. Bear in mind, my code was TCC Solenoid inoperative. imp

Personally, since I have a 4x4, I'd like to install a 3 way switch for my TCC. Force On/Auto/Force Off. Reason being, force on would be nice for crawling in 4x4 low and 1st gear, don't really see a need for force off but if doing the wiring anyway might as well add the option...

 

[imp]

Personally, since I have a 4x4, I'd like to install a 3 way switch for my TCC. Force On/Auto/Force Off. Reason being, force on would be nice for crawling in 4x4 low and 1st gear, don't really see a need for force off but if doing the wiring anyway might as well add the option...

@TechGuru
I've considered manually turning TCC ON, as most driving not start and stop really does not need the clutch disengaged, and the driver who constantly gets on and off the gas pedal drives the TCC Solenoid nuts. Think it over before delving into it, though. Let's say you prefer TCC ON in 3rd gear and higher, you switch it on, PCM will immediately find fault with that! To pull it off w/o flashing idiot lights, PCM would have to be "tricked" into seeing Solenoid current when it expects to, and also to not see it, as when you turn on TCC when it should be off. Easy enough to do, BUT, let's try to figure out how this scheme will fit in with and "jibe" with the differences between engine speed and transmission input shaft speed, when PCM starts seeing incorrect speed comparisons. imp