PCM replacement and PATS

[SixBucks]

2004 Explorer XLT, 4.0L SOHC, 150k miles
So, it is a very long, separate story, but I am looking to replace my PCM.
I am looking at Flag Ship 1 out of NY for a reman unit. Anyone use them before? Other recommendations?
They have one for about $200 without keys and about $300 that includes two new keys.
A good friend of mine has a scan tool (it just looks like a tablet) that he paid about $500 or $600 for. Should we be able to install the $200 reman PCM and use that scan tool to get it to talk to my existing keys? Does anyone know the basic steps to make that happen?
I have done A LOT to this Explorer over the last few years, but PCM/computer work is not something that I have really any experience with, so I appreciate tips and suggestions, as well as how-to.
Thank you!

 

[J_C]

Ask the friend or look up the specs on the scan tool manufacturer's website. Unless it explicitly states that it can program Ford keys, then I'd assume it can't. Forscan app for windows, free extended license trial version, along with an ELM327 based obd2 dongle can program keys. You can find more info in Forscan's forum.

FORScan forum - Index page

 

[SixBucks]

I have had a couple people recommend getting a used PCM from a junk yard, rather than a reman unit. Both said they have replaced many and have had far better results with used. My only concern is that I know that mine has been updated for the attached TSB; I would think it would be a roll of the dice, at best, if the used one will have been updated or not. The reman place (Flag Ship 1) claims that the latest updates will have been loaded and it will have a lifetime warranty. If the used one does not have the update, then I would have to pay a dealer to do the update, correct?

 

[SixBucks]

Well, I purchased a used PCM from a junkyard near Columbia, SC. I paid $75 for the PCM. With tax and shipping I had a few cents under $90 in it. I went to a local locksmith whom I talked to on the phone. I swapped the PCM in his parking lot (takes about 15 minutes). He plugged in and did his thing and within another ten minutes it was running with both of my keys working. He wanted $120; negotiated to $100 cash.
A couple notes:
The ABS light is on now. My theory: The used PCM came out of a Mercury. The Mercury probably had Advance Track stability control, my Explorer does not. I wonder if the PCM is looking for more chassis inputs (yaw sensor, others, etc.) that my vehicle does not have.
It mainly fixed my problem. I say mainly. When it was hot outside and the engine compartment was hot, and put under load, it would buck or jerk. The hotter, the worse the symptom. Also, if the A/C was on, it was much worse.
I have put on a few hundred miles on since the swap. On one hot day, after a long drive, with the A/C on, while going up a hill, it jerked slightly once. I would call it a 98% improvement.

 

[J_C]

Is the old PCM working enough to pull the firmware off and transfer to the replacement? Even if not, seems like I vaguely recall some services that can put the right firmware on from the VIN, but I don't have any recommendations.

 

[SixBucks]

Is the old PCM working enough to pull the firmware off and transfer to the replacement? Even if not, seems like I vaguely recall some services that can put the right firmware on from the VIN, but I don't have any recommendations.

The old PCM is very functional yet. I have been contemplating sending it in to have it refurbished. I tried to get it open and have a look inside, but after an hour of trying, I give up. It is sealed with urethane (same stuff windshields are glued in with).
Anyhow, one thought I had was to try to get my old one fixed and put it back in. There is a place that a few people have mentioned outside of St. Louis in IL. I have e-mailed them and called and left a voice message, but no one will call me back.

 

[Searcher1]

My suggestion is SIA Electronics out of Tilden IL. I've used them twice now, once a Grand Cherokee and once on a Lincoln LS, with excellent results. Saves monkeying around with reprogramming.

 

[SixBucks]

My suggestion is SIA Electronics out of Tilden IL. I've used them twice now, once a Grand Cherokee and once on a Lincoln LS, with excellent results. Saves monkeying around with reprogramming.

Thanks for the recommendation, I appreciate it.
Funny though. A few people on a couple different forums have recommended them. I can't get them to contact me back! I sent an email inquiry via their website a few weeks ago. I then tried calling (during normal business hours); got voice mail, so I left a message. Never heard back. Two days ago I sent a quote request via their website; still nothing back. Crazy.

 

[Searcher1]

I've never gone about it that way. I've gone through their ebay store both times and it appears that that must be their main point of contact initially.

 

[J_C]

You might seek places with a Google search and read the google reviews.

 

[SixBucks]

So, I finally got a hold of SIA and sent them my original PCM to refurbish.
I have a used PCM in the vehicle now, which a locksmith got my keys to work with.
Question: when I install my refurbished original PCM back in the vehicle, will the locksmith have to do his thing again to get the keys to work? Will my keys only work with the used PCM in there now, or will they work with both?

 

[J_C]

If all that was done to your original was hardware, discrete component/PCB repair, and it used to work with those keys, it should still... unless some stray ESD event during repair, scrambled the non-volatile memory which shouldn't happen but you'd have to wait and see.

If the PCM was reprogrammed due to wanting that updated TSB issue handled, I don't know, it may have erased the key programming in the process.

Either way, if it is rejecting the keys then it should generate a Ford-specific fault code (which an OBD2-only type code reader will not be able to read) and (assuming still true for an '04) flash the dash theft/pats light rapidly if PATS security is what is keeping the vehicle from starting.

 

[SixBucks]

Well, it took a few weeks, but SIA called me back. The technician said that when he heats the unit and taps on it, the CPU fails. So, they cannot repair it.
I guess I will try a reman unit.

 

[SixBucks]

The Flagship One website lists instructions based on which "type" of PATS you have: A and B / B, C, F, and G / or E. This is my first-time hearing about different types. How do I know which type I have?

 

[J_C]

The Flagship One website lists instructions based on which "type" of PATS you have: A and B / B, C, F, and G / or E. This is my first-time hearing about different types. How do I know which type I have?

You can google search for a document named "PATS Job Aid PDF" and find THIS, and it will show info for the various PATS versions, though your '04 has type E.

 

[Brian360]

Ask the friend or look up the specs on the scan tool manufacturer's website. Unless it explicitly states that it can program Ford keys, then I'd assume it can't. Forscan app for windows, free extended license trial version, along with an ELM327 based obd2 dongle can program keys. You can find more info in Forscan's forum.

FORScan forum - Index page

Probably a little to late...https://www.explorerforum.com/forums/threads/pats-key-sucsess-thanks-forscan.432028/ mentions that the ELM327 device is from China and is "hit or miss". OBDLink SX is suggested to be a better choice.

 

[J_C]

Probably a little to late...https://www.explorerforum.com/forums/threads/pats-key-sucsess-thanks-forscan.432028/ mentions that the ELM327 device is from China and is "hit or miss". OBDLink SX is suggested to be a better choice.

Certainly a reasonable choice, but it mostly boils down to either knowing whether what you're buying can do J1850 that ford used through.... '04 or '05 for Explorers?, or if your vehicle was made after the switch to canbus, then just about any of them that aren't defective out the box, should work.

One safe bet for J1850 is a BAFX on amazon, and the wifi version if you want to use it on Apple devices. However both of those appear to be out of stock on amazon at the moment. Another option is just read the comments on amazon to see if anyone mentions it working with same generation of Ford vehicle.

It is worth noting that Elm Electronics went out of business in 2022, so fewer and fewer OBD2 dongles based on the genuine chip will be available in the market in the future, but the generic clone ELM327 chips work fine, rather it is whether the dongle they are implemented in, has support for the older protocols that is usually the issue, even if they claim they support all OBD2 from '96 up.

 

[Brian360]

Certainly a reasonable choice, but it mostly boils down to either knowing whether what you're buying can do J1850 that ford used through.... '04 or '05 for Explorers?, or if your vehicle was made after the switch to canbus, then just about any of them that aren't defective out the box, should work.

One safe bet for J1850 is a BAFX on amazon, and the wifi version if you want to use it on Apple devices. However both of those appear to be out of stock on amazon at the moment. Another option is just read the comments on amazon to see if anyone mentions it working with same generation of Ford vehicle.

It is worth noting that Elm Electronics went out of business in 2022, so fewer and fewer OBD2 dongles based on the genuine chip will be available in the market in the future, but the generic clone ELM327 chips work fine, rather it is whether the dongle they are implemented in, has support for the older protocols that is usually the issue, even if they claim they support all OBD2 from '96 up.

I definitely appreciate the input! I was in the remotest of places when my car (2004 Mercury Mountaineer) wouldn't start. (Although I do admit hours before I was driving on a seriously washboard forest road for 16 miles.) Since bringing it back to the civilized world, I've replaced the starter. starter relay, ignition switch. Took it Midas and now I see that I have B1213, B1601 and a P1000 code so my next move will be the PATS but I'm sure it will come down to replacing the PCM. That fast blinking auto theft light is giving me false hopes.

 

[J_C]

^ Rarely I read of people whose PCM just lost the programming.

You wrote that you replaced the ignition switch but you still have the same lock cylinder and key? Yes with the pats light blinking rapidly, it seems pats is preventing starting, so I'd try to reprogam in the keys.

It is less often that the PCM failed than just lost programming or the halo receiver around the ignition cylinder went bad.

 

[Brian360]

^ Rarely I read of people whose PCM just lost the programming.

You wrote that you replaced the ignition switch but you still have the same lock cylinder and key? Yes with the pats light blinking rapidly, it seems pats is preventing starting, so I'd try to reprogam in the keys.

It is less often that the PCM failed than just lost programming or the halo receiver around the ignition cylinder went bad.

I do believe that Midas opted for the "clone" route in the two keys they did for me over the past 18 months instead of doing a "master" key. So I'm relieved to hear that you're giving me that hopeful option instead of replacing the PCM. When the SUV was in the shop earlier in this week, I was told that the original key was dead. The mechanic showed me that the light would not blink after being in the "ON" position for the "original" key. But it would blink fast for the "clones".