Police Interceptor Utility - Starter issue

[Bbydriver]

I recently bought a 2014 PIU that was running but cannot start it now. The battery was weak, and I thought it had a parasitic draw. I removed and checked all the fuses and relays without success. I also removed a lot of extra/unused wiring in the cabin, including a Tremco anti-theft device behind the cigarette lighters with a long wire that went into the underside of the steering column. While fooling around, I realized that the PRND lights on the dash were staying on (even more than 10 minutes after removing the keys). I don't know if the Tremco device was actually connected, but, at the place where it would have connected, there was another connector that was unattached. When I plugged that connector in and discarded the Tremco, the PRND lights started going off correctly.

Unfortunately, when I reconnected the battery, it will not start in park or neutral. I installed a new battery and put a jumper across the starter relay, which immediately powered the starter. So, I figure the battery and starter are good. The key turns the headlights on. I tried jiggling the key around, but there is no play.

I understand that one of the control contacts for the starter relay is supposed to be at 12V when the key is turned to start, and the other control contact is supposed to be grounded by the PCM. When I tested them, they both measured a low, erratic voltage (less than 1V and jumping around).

Does anyone have suggestions for what to check next? Should I check the PCM (I don't even know where it is)? Do I need to get behind the key/ignition to see how it sends voltage to the relay? I saw (Ford starter wiring diagram) that there is also a transmission range selector somewhere, and maybe I messed that up while fooling with the Tremco connections?

Thanks for any ideas.

 

[J_C]

To clarify, you mean that when you turn the key, the starter does not activate and spin at all?

You might want to get the 2014 workshop manual linked below in my sig, in particular section 303-06 but elsewhere in it as well, and it also has wiring diagrams. If you don't have a scan tool capable of pulling the DTC codes, you can jump around at things to check, or get a scan tool capable of these ford specific codes.

 

[Bbydriver]

Correct, when I turn the key, the starter does not activate or spin at all.

I tried a code reader, but it did not find any errors, and I did not see any other info that would help.

I will check out the manual, so thanks for that. I saw some other schematics online, and the electrical stuff makes sense, but I still don't know where some of the stuff is physically located (like the PCM and the ignition wiring. Maybe the manual will help me with that.

Thank you.

 

[Bbydriver]

To clarify, you mean that when you turn the key, the starter does not activate and spin at all?

You might want to get the 2014 workshop manual linked below in my sig, in particular section 303-06 but elsewhere in it as well, and it also has wiring diagrams. If you don't have a scan tool capable of pulling the DTC codes, you can jump around at things to check, or get a scan tool capable of these ford specific codes.

I am still working through the manual, but thanks again for providing this. It is just what I needed.

 

[J_C]

You're welcome and good luck!

Did you locate the PCM?

 

[Bbydriver]

You're welcome and good luck!

Did you locate the PCM?

View attachment 444681

I did not see it there (photo below) but did not remove the batting yet to see if it is behind.

Honestly, I am 90 minutes into the manual and still have some more remedial studying to do from it before I get too far. When you mentioned a scan tool, did you mean my $20 Walmart OBDII device, or something more complex that connects to a laptop or phone? The manual refers to a network scan for DTCs and sounds sophisticated.

 

[J_C]

Something more than a scan tool only designed to understand OBD2 code set. Manufacturer specific codes extend beyond those. The most cost effective are the dongles that connect to a host phone, tablet, or laptop and then you run Forscan app on the host.

FORScan Home

I couldn't tell you which dongles are the best, Forscan's team tests and lists some but there are many ELM327 based that work with their app. Here's a list of some popular ones:

ELM327: What Is The Best Genuine ELM327 Adapters 2024 (Bluetooth/Wifi/USB)? - OBD Advisor

Everything to know about ELM327 | ELM327 adapter| Honest review & buying guide | Top 6 best ELM327 adapters (WIFI, Bluetooth, USB) 2023| and more

www.obdadvisor.com

iOS devices usually need wifi connected dongles instead of blueooth. I have a cheap translucent blue one that works with my android phone on my '14 Explorer, sold under various labels but while it supports the Canbus that ford switched to in the '00s, it doesn't support the J1850 my '98 uses. The cheapest also seem to have worse quality control and may have design differences. I gambled for the low price and it worked out. The funny part is, some reviews will state it works with Forscan and some will state it doesn't, but not whether it was the issue I mentioned above or some other problem. It's a moving target, how new a vehicle and what codes from that vehicle, Forscan or a more costly standalone tool with paid subscriptions, supports. There really aren't any guarantees of what particular codes each app can read beyond OBD2, but it helps that your (and my) '14 have a few years time for developers to work with.

Example of one similar to my cheap translucent blue one:

Amazon product ASIN B01HXGX8V6
Don't use the software that comes with any of the generic brands, some of it might even be malware. Just Forscan.

 

[Bbydriver]

Something more than a scan tool only designed to understand OBD2 code set. Manufacturer specific codes extend beyond those. The most cost effective are the dongles that connect to a host phone, tablet, or laptop and then you run Forscan app on the host.

FORScan Home

I couldn't tell you which dongles are the best, Forscan's team tests and lists some but there are many ELM327 based that work with their app. Here's a list of some popular ones:

ELM327: What Is The Best Genuine ELM327 Adapters 2024 (Bluetooth/Wifi/USB)? - OBD Advisor

Everything to know about ELM327 | ELM327 adapter| Honest review & buying guide | Top 6 best ELM327 adapters (WIFI, Bluetooth, USB) 2023| and more

www.obdadvisor.com

I have a cheap translucent blue one that works on my '14 Explorer, sold under various labels but while it supports the Canbus that ford switched to in the '00s, it doesn't support the J1850 my '98 uses. The cheapest also seem to have worse quality control and may have design differences. I gambled for the low price and it worked out. The funny part is, some reviews will state it works with Forscan and some will state it doesn't, but not whether it was the issue I mentioned above or some other problem. Example:

Amazon product ASIN B01HXGX8V6

I will have to give that a try. Probably makes more sense to have something connected to your phone anyway.

Something interesting today - After getting a bit off-track while reading about keys in the manual, I noticed that my key fobs are not working, so maybe that is preventing the PCM from signaling the starter relay. I just tried reprogramming twice with the method in the manual (8 times cycling the ignition switch), after which the doors lock and unlock to indicate programming mode, but nothing happens when I press the buttons on the fobs. I pulled the battery from one, and it read 3.03V on my multimeter.

The fobs are separate from the physical key and say FoMoCo on the back, so I think they are original issue. I know at least one was working before I disconnected the car battery and pulled all the fuses.

 

[J_C]

I edited my last post, seems that I do that a lot recently.

I'm not familiar with the fobs on the PIU. Battery should be strong enough still at 3.0V. On my '14 they're integrated into the key head. From what I've read, the PIU doesn't have PATS security so it shouldn't be PATs causing starter lockout. They don't seem to need the fob to start, just a standard key.

 

[peterk9]

I edited my last post, seems that I do that a lot recently.

I'm not familiar with the fobs on the PIU. Battery should be strong enough still at 3.0V. On my '14 they're integrated into the key head. From what I've read, the PIU doesn't have PATS security so it shouldn't be PATs causing starter lockout. They don't seem to need the fob to start, just a standard key.

Welcome to the Forum.

Peter

 

[Bbydriver]

Welcome to the Forum.

Peter

Thanks, Peter. Glad to be here.

 

[Bbydriver]

I edited my last post, seems that I do that a lot recently.

I'm not familiar with the fobs on the PIU. Battery should be strong enough still at 3.0V. On my '14 they're integrated into the key head. From what I've read, the PIU doesn't have PATS security so it shouldn't be PATs causing starter lockout. They don't seem to need the fob to start, just a standard key.

I got a new battery for the key fob last night, but it still did not work. It is odd that the two fobs stopped working at the same time as the starting issue, but I do not know if they are related.

I also removed the windshield cowl to get to the PCM and found a pile of pink insulation bits arranged in the void near the outlet for the windshield vent. Despite the suspicions forming in my mind as I was cleaning it out, I was still surprised when I saw out the corner of my eye the owner tiptoeing across the battery. Sadly (for the mouse), he met his demise last night. I'm still looking over the wiring, though I do not see any obvious signs that it was chewing on things.

By the way, are you able to see the vehicle diagrams in the manual? I can see the wiring schematics (which are very helpful, thanks), but the pictures of the vehicle showing part locations just appear with the numbers and leader lines, no vehicle diagram in the middle.

 

[J_C]

^ Yes there's something wrong with it, doesn't show the vehicle in the middle for me. A different browser didn't help either.

Someday I might look into why but usually I find workarounds, seek the location info elsewhere if I can't guess close enough based on the lines.

 

[Bbydriver]

I finally have a working setup for Forscan, which, after some fiddling, found a bunch of DTCs. Only one is marked as "Present at time of request" and that is for PATS:

The service manual says this about that code:

B10DA:51​

PATS Target Identifier: Not Programmed​

There is no PCM identification stored in the BCM . CARRY OUT a parameter reset. For vehicles without Intelligent Access, REFER to Section 419-01B, Passive Anti-Theft System (PATS) Parameter Reset .​

And the reset procedure looks like this:

Passive Anti-Theft System (PATS) Parameter Reset​

1. Turn the key from OFF to RUN.
2. From the scan tool, enter TOOLBOX. Select Body>Security>PATS Functions and follow the IDS on-screen instructions to enter PATS security access.
3. NOTE: If the BCM was replaced, at least 2 keys must be programmed to the BCM . After completing step 3, leave the scan tool connected and REFER to Erase All Keys and Program Two Keys .
   From the scan tool, select "Parameter Reset" and follow the IDS on-screen instructions.

Forscan did not let me "Erase and Program Keys" because it says there are none stored. When I tried to do "Ignition Key Programming," I kept getting an error that it failed. The log says "Number of keys stored is zero" and "No key detected."

I'm thinking that maybe my PIU needs a special programmable key with a built-in chip, but that the two keys I have are just plain old keys (marked "Ford" in the black plastic and with an "S" stamped on the metal) with electronic key fobs to lock and unlock the doors. Before I disconnected the battery for a different issue, my plain keys were working to start the vehicle, and the fobs were working to lock and unlock. Is that possible? And does that mean that I might solve my problem by getting two new SA keys, like these, cut to fit?

Or maybe I'm all wet here. J_C is not the only one that mentioned that the PIU might not even use PATS, though I did not find anything definitive yet.

Thanks for any thoughts.

 

[peterk9]

I don't think that the PIU has the PATS feature. I don't know if this thread is of any help; PIU Remote Start PATS bypass?

Peter

 

[J_C]

I'm thinking that maybe my PIU needs a special programmable key with a built-in chip, but that the two keys I have are just plain old keys

If the vehicle ever started with the plain keys, it does not have PATS active, so you shouldn't need chipped keys.

Everything I have seen about the PIUs, even for the Taurus, is that they don't have PATS, just use chipless fleet keys. Was there anything done to the BCM? I saw the following topic, but I don't have a membership there, so can only see the 1st post:

Used BCM with IDS FAIL IO Terminal Saves the Day – Diagnostic Network

I was called out to program a BCM on a Ford Explorer that is a police SUV. The customer stated that the car would not start. When I got there I noticed the key was not a chip key. Just a normal plastic head key. I thought this very strange as I had not seen a 2016 Ford that did not have...

diag.net

I'd guess that this isn't related to your problem though, that when you removed the Tremco anti-theft device and wiring, some of it was needed. Possibly it was engaging the starter circuit and you need to hook that back up again - at least re-make the connection that was severed when the Tremco was put in series to disable the starter? I might seek an installation /wiring guide for the Tremco which may illustrate which wires were altered.

You might see if the wire for that is present on the steering column switch. Anything beyond that, I'd look through the relevant pages on that 2014 workshop manual and wiring diagrams in my sig below.

 

[Bbydriver]

If the vehicle ever started with the plain keys, it does not have PATS active, so you shouldn't need chipped keys.

Everything I have seen about the PIUs, even for the Taurus, is that they don't have PATS, just use chipless fleet keys. Was there anything done to the BCM? I saw the following topic, but I don't have a membership there, so can only see the 1st post:

Used BCM with IDS FAIL IO Terminal Saves the Day – Diagnostic Network

I was called out to program a BCM on a Ford Explorer that is a police SUV. The customer stated that the car would not start. When I got there I noticed the key was not a chip key. Just a normal plastic head key. I thought this very strange as I had not seen a 2016 Ford that did not have...

diag.net

I'd guess that this isn't related to your problem though, that when you removed the Tremco anti-theft device and wiring, some of it was needed. Possibly it was engaging the starter circuit and you need to hook that back up again - at least re-make the connection that was severed when the Tremco was put in series to disable the starter? I might seek an installation /wiring guide for the Tremco which may illustrate which wires were altered.

You might see if the wire for that is present on the steering column switch. Anything beyond that, I'd look through the relevant pages on that 2014 workshop manual and wiring diagrams in my sig below.

I think you and Peter are right about my vehicle not using PATS, though I’m still confused about why Foscan is finding a PATS-related code. Maybe that is a question for the Foscan folks.

First, I’ll go back and play with the Tremco device some more and see if I can get a wiring diagram. Maybe running Foscan again with the Tremco back in place will shed some light.

Thank you both for discouraging me from wasting time with different keys.

 

[Bbydriver]

Just thought to record my resolution in case anyone else has a similar problem and sees my original post.

After I kept failing to reprogram the keys with Forscan, I had the vehicle towed to the shop, where they confirmed that the keys had somehow become un-programmed. They were able to reprogram them - both the originals, which were marked "S," as well as the eBay replacements marked "SA."

I appreciate all the info and encouragement from others here.