Power Steering rattle?

[joney]

I had my Ex in a shop to check out a vibration at idle - mechanic sez it's not the driveline so good - BUT noticed the intermittent rattle that to me sounds just like a loose heat shield - told me it's actually the power steering pump. I get no whining/groaning noise out of the power steering, except a slight one while at full lock with the steering. (My neighbor next door with an 03 F-150 DOES have PS issues, the pump is the only thing you hear when he's driving). He pointed out the ****ed pulley, belt still good, and said a new pump is about $400 (Cardone puts out several PS pumps under $100, don't know if they're good or junk!) If we weren't going into a deep freeze this week I'd consider replacing it myself, but:
What do you say about his diagnosis? How does it compare to your experience with 2nd Gen PS pumps?

as to the vibration, he said driveshaft not even turning at idle in Park - the idle is erratic and low so will check on misfires, etc, when I get Forscan working on my android.

 

[Motorhogman]

Put a mechanics stethoscope on the pump while you hear the noise. If you don't have one use a long screw driver. Put the blade on the pump and the handle on your ear. BE CAREFUL.. You should be able to isolate the noise that way.

 

[Pete Deering]

I had my Ex in a shop to check out a vibration at idle - mechanic sez it's not the driveline so good - BUT noticed the intermittent rattle that to me sounds just like a loose heat shield - told me it's actually the power steering pump. I get no whining/groaning noise out of the power steering, except a slight one while at full lock with the steering. (My neighbor next door with an 03 F-150 DOES have PS issues, the pump is the only thing you hear when he's driving). He pointed out the ****ed pulley, belt still good, and said a new pump is about $400 (Cardone puts out several PS pumps under $100, don't know if they're good or junk!) If we weren't going into a deep freeze this week I'd consider replacing it myself, but:
What do you say about his diagnosis? How does it compare to your experience with 2nd Gen PS pumps?

as to the vibration, he said driveshaft not even turning at idle in Park - the idle is erratic and low so will check on misfires, etc, when I get Forscan working on my android.

What type of fluid are you using?

 

[joney]

What type of fluid are you using?

That is a good question! Whatever was in it, when I bought my Ex last March.

 

[J_C]

I've never seen a power steering pump sound like a loose heat shield. Have you ever had to reattach your heat shields? I mean if you have the original exhaust still, aftermarket usually doesn't have them. Mine broke their welds years ago so I strapped them down with plain old 12ga solid core wire.

Even so, I suppose we have to trust the mechanic?!!??? If the pulley is ****ed inwards from the tension of the belt, yes it's a sure sign the bearing is shot on it ("it" meaning the pump, not the pulley which just presses on the shaft IIRC (or bolts on otherwise) or this mechanic is really shady and loosened the bolts to the pump to make it loose), but considering what I wrote above, I wonder if you have these two different problems, simultaneously.

I suspect your mechanic is marking up the pump quite a bit! I'm only seeing them available as remanufactured from Ford and are $134 (+$40 core and ~$13 S/H). That's if this is the correct part #:

1997-2003 Ford Power Steering Pump F77Z-3A674-EBRM | Auto Nation Ford White Bear Lake

1997-2003 Ford part # F77Z-3A674-EBRM - Power Steering Pump

parts.autonationfordwhitebearlake.com

I do not understand what "driveshaft not even turning at idle in park", means? If he means the shaft on the power steering pump, it would quickly shred the belt and you'd have no power assist for steering if it wasn't turning. If that instead means the driveshaft for the powertrain to the wheels, of course it wouldn't be spinning while the vehicle isn't moving because it's in park.. Maybe I don't understand something about the diagnosis.

Checking for misfires is definitely something to do. If there are none, I'd wonder about a bad IAC valve if the RPM is dropping to cause it, or bad motor mounts if idle RPM stays about the same. What is the idle RPM when this is happening? Is it constantly vibration or alternates between smooth and rough within seconds?

 

[joney]

I've never seen a power steering pump sound like a loose heat shield. Have you ever had to reattach your heat shields? I mean if you have the original exhaust still, aftermarket usually doesn't have them. Mine broke their welds years ago so I strapped them down with plain old 12ga solid core wire.

Even so, I suppose we have to trust the mechanic?!!??? If the pulley is ****ed inwards from the tension of the belt, yes it's a sure sign the bearing is shot on it (or this mechanic is really shady and loosened the bolts to the pump to make it loose), but considering what I wrote above, I wonder if you have these two different problems, simultaneously.

I suspect your mechanic is marking up the pump quite a bit! I'm only seeing them available as remanufactured from Ford and are $134 (+$40 core and ~$13 S/H). That's if this is the correct part #:

1997-2003 Ford Power Steering Pump F77Z-3A674-EBRM | Auto Nation Ford White Bear Lake

1997-2003 Ford part # F77Z-3A674-EBRM - Power Steering Pump

parts.autonationfordwhitebearlake.com

I do not understand what "driveshaft not even turning at idle in park", means? If he means the shaft on the power steering pump, it would quickly shred the belt and you'd have no power assist for steering if it wasn't turning. If that instead means the driveshaft for the powertrain to the wheels, of course it wouldn't be spinning while the vehicle isn't moving because it's in park.. Maybe I don't understand something about the diagnosis.

Checking for misfires is definitely something to do. If there are none, I'd wonder about a bad IAC valve if the RPM is dropping to cause it, or bad motor mounts if idle RPM stays about the same. What is the idle RPM when this is happening? Is it constantly vibration or alternates between smooth and rough within seconds?

Thanks much for your reply! No, never did anything with heat shields - But the rattle is seemingly in the engine compartment and not underneath! Do you recommend the reman Ford OEM PS? This same shop did my whole exhaust last year and it seems very good! Will check for loose heat shields though when it gets a little warmer here.

Idle IS low and variable - have had to put foot on gas a little while warming up/unfreezing the windows this winter.

The drivetrain- I'd been experiencing vibrations under the driver's seat at idle for months. Nephew said my front u-joint was worn but should last a while. Completely unfamiliar with 4wd as this is my first one. Asked mechanic to check out the whole driveline, back differential leaks out the case and he put a cup of oil in it. Says the driveline is good, a relief.

I've been to this shop before, but am mystified with the PS issue as I've had NO problems with it moaning and making noise like so many do. Just a little noise at full lock. But I'd want to replace the ****ed pulley - as I've no idea how old the PS is, and the fluid in it is a little dark, wondering if the Cardone PS pump is any good, and if I should replace it and the pulley as a good preventative measure. Want my Ex to be up to long road trips this spring. Any advice on that?

 

[J_C]

Ford remanufactured parts are usually good, aftermarket on the other hand is a crapshoot.

When my IAC first started acting up, I noticed because the idle RPM dropped too low, every time the A/C compressor cycled on.

Advice: Don't take a 25 year old vehicle on long road trips.
I can only go by what your mechanic is telling you. The pulley itself is probably fine, just ****ed because the shaft it's on, the bearing for that is enlarged so it is being pulled down by the belt tension. I wouldn't replace the pulley unless there are chunks missing out of it.

A couple of cardone remanufactured pumps I saw on amazon, didn't have very good reviews. I'd sooner get a Motorcraft reman than a Cardone reman., unless there's some other source for a major aftermarket like Bosch or Denso but I didn't see any on Rock Auto. New Cardone, I don't know, never used one.

I'm still on my original pump. When it fails, if I'm not in a hurry I might see if I can rebuild it with a kit, or if in a hurry, I'd probably just get something with a lifetime warranty at Autozone because they're right up the street.

 

[Pete Deering]

My heat shield on the side of the tranny was loose. It just clips on