Quick gasket question

[SuperKirby]

I'm looking at gaskets to order and not sure on these...
This
http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/moreinfo.php?pk=2186186&cc=1119620
seems a lot different than this
http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/moreinfo.php?pk=125557&cc=1119620

I would rather use steel than paper, but seems like the middle sectin would really need to be there.
Suggestions? Sorry if it's a dumb question.
Thanks.

 

[2stroke]

Are you trying to replace just the upper intake and fuel rail, or those two and the lower intake? The first one is not for the 4.0, I can tell you that much. The second one includes the upper intake manifold (Ford calls it the plenum), the fuel rail, and the lower intake gaskets. I have never seen steel gaskets for these.

 

[natenkiki2004]

The first one is for the 4.0, it's the lower intake manifold gasket, just in the 2-piece variety, rather than the typical 1-piece. I've seen it mentioned in forums that Ford went with the 2-piece because it's better. The 1-piece probably made it easy and quick to assemble the engine but easy & quick often bites back hard.

 

[SuperKirby]

I'm just referring to the lower intake gasket, not all the fuel rail and all. Sorry that was just the picture I found.
This is the debate I'm trying to figure out. The steel ones would obviously be better, but the bigger 1 piece gasket seems like a necessity? I thought the bottom of the intake was open and used the gasket to seal it? It would be super bad to put that all back together with the 2 piece gaskets and find out that big middle piece was kind of important.

 

[2stroke]

I'm not saying your wrong, but how could it be the same? The holes for what I assume are the water jacket are oval in the two piece, and circular in the one piece. There are also a few small holes that are not in the one piece. On top of that, the main holes are not cut the same. In the one piece they are mostly inline, where the two piece the outside ones are offset from the main intake holes. Sorry I can't be more specific, as the farthest I've gone is the fuel rail. Please correct me if I'm wrong, as I would like to learn.

 

[2stroke]

After looking at the lower intake, I would have to say the first one would work, and would be better. You won't find steel for the fuel rail and plenum. There is no need for the middle part. I can't see why the some of the holes are different between them, maybe so it can fit multiple vehicles? Word of advice, you should never use RTV silicone on gaskets, they are supposed to go on naked. I have never understood why they send packets with.

 

[SuperKirby]

The RTV with those gaskets actually goes between intake and block or heads and block, something along those lines if I remember correctly. There's a spot that's metal on metal and no gasket. I'll double check the manual when I get home to be sure. Also I'll plan to use the metal 2 piece gaskets when I do this job.

 

[FR-425]

The two piece kit is meant to eliminate the difficulty of doing the one piece with the engine still in the vehicle.

It is just much easier to re-install using the two piece kit and the results are less likely to fail.

It also is redesigned to "fix" the notorious leaky spots. i.e. the corners and the water jackets, and is considered an upgrade.

Definitely recommend the two piece kit

 

[SuperKirby]

Very informative. Thanks and I'm glad I asked. I thought it was for something not a 4.0.

 

[natenkiki2004]

One thing I don't know about the two-piece (but will find out when I do this job) is if you need additional sealant between the two gaskets. What I mean is, where the flat part of the valley on the block meets up with the flat part of the LIM. I would think that there should be something there, otherwise it might leak air into/out of the crankcase which, in a few words, could mess with your fuel mixture. Even if the instructions don't specify, I'd probably still run a bead of RTV on the outside edge, just to be sure.

Other than that, I'd go with the 2-piece. In fact, I WILL go with the 2-piece.

 

[SuperKirby]

Sounds like a plan. Let me know how you end up approaching that and what for sure you end up doing?

Thanks.

 

[natenkiki2004]

It'll be a while before I tackle it, I got a whole bunch of things I need to buy to do it, probably upwards of $400 or so, taking care of a lot of stuff at once. Plus, it's winter and I don't have a garage to do things in and I want to be sure any RTV I use cures properly.

 

[jd4242]

The two pieces is better..with either gaskets the outer edge of the valley, around water passage and all four corners where heads meet block need rtv..dont be shy either..I personally put a thin film around the ports on the heads and LIM

Fyi the 2 piece is metal

 

[SuperKirby]

Is it possible that if I didn't get enough RTV around the lower intake gasket that I would loose fluid there, and it's not actually the head gaskets? How would I find that out?

For sure when I replace them I'll use the 2 piece for sure.

 

[jd4242]

Is it possible that if I didn't get enough RTV around the lower intake gasket that I would loose fluid there, and it's not actually the head gaskets? How would I find that out?

For sure when I replace them I'll use the 2 piece for sure.

Typically if it leaks there water gets in the oil and NOT oil in radiator. .head gaskets or cracked heads normally water shows up in oil and oil shows up in the radiator. .my second rebuilt was for this reason

 

[SuperKirby]

Typically if it leaks there water gets in the oil and NOT oil in radiator. .head gaskets or cracked heads normally water shows up in oil and oil shows up in the radiator. .my second rebuilt was for this reason

Interesting. I haven't noticed any oil in the coolant.
What about bubbles in the overflow tank? I was always told that was an indication of head gaskets. I'm not smart, but it seems to me that would also be possible with a leak around the lower intake.

Maybe I'm better off to just pull everything and replace down to the head gaskets, knowing that worst case I didn't need to change them but at least I would then have the better gaskets in there.

 

[jd4242]

Interesting. I haven't noticed any oil in the coolant.
What about bubbles in the overflow tank? I was always told that was an indication of head gaskets. I'm not smart, but it seems to me that would also be possible with a leak around the lower intake.

Maybe I'm better off to just pull everything and replace down to the head gaskets, knowing that worst case I didn't need to change them but at least I would then have the better gaskets in there.

Bubbles are normally a head gasket, the cyclinder is pushing air into the cooling system. wont get oil from that, but you will get white smoke out the exhaust. .it also will crack a head very fast..

Depending on year of heads I wont touch them..early heads have known to crack after being removed and reused..thats the reason for my third rebuild which I went to 95tm heads..lol

 

[SuperKirby]

I bought new head when I did the head gaskets last summer. It worked great for about 5 months then after a road trip I noticed I was back to going through coolant again and bubbles in the overflow tank. All I can come up with was that I didn't clean up the block well enough, and while I thought I ordered the heavy duty gaskets for everything that's not what I got. I'm guessing one of these two things is the source of my problems and will probably redo the head gaskets and hope my problems go away.

 

[jd4242]

I bought new head when I did the head gaskets last summer. It worked great for about 5 months then after a road trip I noticed I was back to going through coolant again and bubbles in the overflow tank. All I can come up with was that I didn't clean up the block well enough, and while I thought I ordered the heavy duty gaskets for everything that's not what I got. I'm guessing one of these two things is the source of my problems and will probably redo the head gaskets and hope my problems go away.

Make sure to clean the head bolts threads with a tap and oil the new head bolts..the super duty gaskets are blue, has a SD on end of part numbers.

 

[jd4242]

They sell test you can send some radiator fluid off to test for exhaust gasses..maybe worth it..head gasket is only way it get in there..a bad lim definitely gets water in oil..once cooling system builds pressure it sprays into the valley getting water in the oil..