Quick question... Water pump bolts

[Jason94sport]

Do they break when you try to remove them? The shop that's replacing mine is saying they see a lot of these bolts break on Explorer's when they change water pumps. They have to be drilled out & they are going to charge me labor to get them out if they do break.

Thanks

 

[Willard]

mine didn't break

 

[shamaal]

I've changed my pump three times and never had any problems. I suppose it could happen though.

 

[WizardOfOdds]

some shops really try to rip you off when they do work on your cars... they are going to charge you labour for when they break something? I don't think so, that's what I'd tell them. It's not your fault they break the bolts or whatever, no matter what they do. You should only pay them for the job, and if they break the rad and engine and tranny while they're at it (of course its just a water pump and it would take something incredible to break those things while changing it )... They should fix it labour free and just charge for parts. That's the only thing I think they can charge for is the parts... So yeah lol, depends on how much you like your mechanic and that, I'd be looking for a different one...

Its just like canadian tire here replaced a water pump for my buddys buick le sabre... they changed the serpentine belt too and charge for the labour of putting on the belt. The point is, charging to put on the belt is a rip off because its already added into the price of changing the water pump. So, he kind of got double charged on that.

Anyways im just rambling on now lol, so yeah, you decide... I don't think it's right for them to charge you the labour for them breaking the bolts.

 

[Anime]

I doubt the water pump bolts are small enough or torqued enough to break. If someone overtorqued them, say using a 1/2" ratchet or breaker bar, or tried to use one to loosen a stuck bolt instead of a smaller bar to loosen it slowly, they might break.

I've changed the pump three times as well, never ever had a problem with any of the bolts, still using the originals. I would NOT use that shop to have the water pump done.

If you have the tools, it's not too hard to change the pump yourself. The biggest hassle is the mess from the remaining coolant dripping out from the pump and the hoses. Drain and remove the radiator, get clutch fan tools on loan from Autozone to remove the fan, take your sweet time removing the pump, scrape the gasket off, clean the surface, put water pump sealant on the new gasket, put the water pump on, torque the bolts, re-attach fan, replace radiator and hoses, fill system with coolant and test. If you don't have the tools, stuff like this is what makes it worth it to pick up a $100-200 mechanics set from Sears or even a $50 Stanley set at walmart, and do the work yourself.

 

[Jason94sport]

The shop I trust since I know the owners. I have no problems with them.
Just something they mentioned about the bolts. I doubt they will break.

You can forget about doing it myself. I just had everything out to replace the AC system. I don't have the time to take it all out again. Forget that!

 

[Tony H]

As mentioned. They are smaller then most cars. If they were installed correctly years ago they shouldn't break.

Sounds like the Mecahnic is just giving you a heads up from his experience with many abused 'X's

 

[ma96782]

Perhaps....what the machanic was trying to say, was that.....the bolts on a 13 year old vehicle may be rusty and could break, expecially since most of us don't change the bolts on a water pump (when a water pump change is done). Or, he might be saying, "Since I'm at it, I could change your bolts w/ a set of brand new bolts, for $$."

Aloha, Mark

PS.....For anyone that may want to try it.......

I noticed there were no entries for replacing the water pump, although this procedure is deemed in depth to some do it yourselfers it's really not a difficult chore on this vehicle.

After you remove the throttle body cover and air crossover tube to the throttle body it's time to read up on a previous article on removing the fan clutch. It is attached to the water pump shaft with a 1 7/16 nut mine was right had threads but it is molded into the fan shroud at the top. There is really no substitute in my books for the special tools to remove this item as there is little clearance in that area. The tools consist of two flat wrenches about a 1/4 inch thick. One fits the nut and the other with a much wider jaw fits over the bolts on the water pump pulley. Some automotive parts houses loan these out for a deposit (I got mine from the local Autozone). Once the fan clutch is loose remove the two bolts at the top of the fan shroud and lift the whole thing straight up and set it out of the way.

Next remove the serpentine belt by putting a 5/8" wrench or socket on the tensioner bolt and raising it up to release the tension on the belt. Next remove the four bolts on the pump pulley using a screw driver or such between two of the bolts to hold the pulley from turning until all the bolts are loose then remove them by hand and set them and the pulley aside. now the pump can be accessed. Remove the lower radiator hose and heater hose from the pump and move them out of the way. Next there is a small bracket to the right as you look at the pump - it braces the pump to the larger framework that holds the power steering pump and A/C compressor, this bracket has two bolt and two nuts holding it. Remove these and set them aside.

Now you can remove the twelve small bolts holding the pump to the front of the engine. The Haynes manual said these were different lengths but mine were all the same. After you remove the pump clean the old gasket from the front of the engine so the new gasket will seal well (this is not an area you want to see leaking after you assemble everything). Place good RTV type sealer to the new pump surface and place the gasket on the pump. I usually do this before I get started so it will set up by the time I'm ready for it. Next place RTV sealer on the gasket and place the pump on the engine starting a couple of bolts to hold it in place. Next start the rest of the bolts before tightening any of them and after all the bolts are started they can be tightened in a cross pattern to ensure the pump doesn't warp. Do not over tighten these bolts just get them good and snug. THIS IS A GOOD TIME TO CHECK HOSES AND CLAMPS WHILE YOU'RE DOWN THERE.

Finally replace every thing in reverse order and fill the radiator with fresh antifreeze and water. It took me about two and a half hours this time but if i had to do it again i'm sure i could trim that time in half. Cost of parts including the pump, RTV, gallon of anti-freeze, and four feet of heater hose and two clamps was about $80.00.

 

[CDW6212R]

Guys, do be careful with water pump bolts. I have changed many Ford water pumps, and those bolts are very long 5/16" bolts usually. They are not grade 8, and they can often times break when trying to loosen them.

The water pump bolts often are almost seized in the block, likely the environment causes that. It is impossible to spray a penetrant on them, so you hope that they were properly torqued previously. Spray the heads of the bolts with penetrant, you want it to get under the head as soon as possible.

Loosen the bolts very gently to start with. If they break free and turn about one time, then they should come right out. Good luck,

 

[Jason94sport]

That's exactly what the shop said. They said it's worse on 1st time replacements. However it's a South FL X so rust isn't an issue, my engine is really clean, & Everything that has to come out to replace has been out once already(except the water pump) It's there today so we shall see.

 

[msmith65]

One thing I have done successfully with bolts I feared would break is to turn them the opposite direction just a hair. Often that breaks the rust or electrostatic bond holding them.

 

[Jason94sport]

All is good, nothing broke. Just under $350 with parts, but at least I didn't have to mess with it.

 

[CDW6212R]

One thing I have done successfully with bolts I feared would break is to turn them the opposite direction just a hair. Often that breaks the rust or electrostatic bond holding them.

That's a good tip when the bolt is frozen and can take it. I've done that once in a while, you think of it when the bolt doesn't let go the first time. Exhaust manifold and collector bolts are like that often.

 

[1shot]

he11 yeah them bolts DO break...

i wuz pullin the bolts out of 2 92 explorers simultaneously this last weekend. 1 had a 1 year old new pump one and the other had the original with 200K on it. Using a 1/4 inch drive i broke 1 bolt off. My brother, (who has the magic touch) was able to remove the broken bit with just a pair of clean toothed (new) vise grips. He used a left-right jiggle motion to break the bond then it came out easy. The rest of the bolts all looked really corroded so i went to the store and bought new ones for all for reinstall..

 

[pugsy]

How is it that some of you guys have changed your pumps 3 times???
How do you know when the pump is starting to fail? My temp is fine and coolent level is good, but there's a small amount of coolent on the pump itselft, nothing dripping, just a bit wet.
Any thoughts?

 

[CDW6212R]

The two seals in the pump usually fail before the bearings. When you notice coolant around the pump, that's a hint to change it soon.

 

[1shot]

if its wet replace it

Itsa well known fact that if its wet - replace it.

Many pumps have weeping hole(s) in bottom and if the seals fail the pump will leak from the small hole.

It is a tell-tale sign it's time to order up yourself a new pump.

 

[JHill]

I just removed the bolts from my 5.0 water pump, and 2 of them broke off.

This is a first time replacement of the pump, as my 97 has only 90k miles. They are all very corroded, I was lucky only 2 broke off. Some of the shanks on the other bolts are corroded to be much thinner in the center than they started out.

If I had a shop and knowledge of this potential non-book time problem, I would also forewarn the customer of it. No sense in losing money on time spent restoring cars rather than repairing them.

 

[1shot]

bolts thin, what does that mean?

The corrosion that occurs in the water pump housing bolts makes me think that there is some additional chemical/electro reasons for the variance.

Anyone got a response?

Maybe a ground strap kinda device between the water pump housing and motor block is required to increase lifespan?

Maybe the variance in metals and/or flowing fluids cause a chemical/electrical imbalance?

I'm just guessing here but... Anytime you have to place a gasket between two (2) parts of an engine such as "head - to - block" or "carburator to intake" or "fuel pump to block" does it not stand to reason (make sense) that the electro-connectivity of these two parts creates a difference.

The whole electrolisys experiment in science class shows us this?

Even of the same metal but different casting and grades of material?