fgump
Member
- Joined
- May 17, 2001
- Messages
- 45
- Reaction score
- 0
- City, State
- Apex, NC
- Year, Model & Trim Level
- '00 XLT
Please see the email I sent below:
Good morning, Mr. X. Let me apologize in advance for the length of this email, but there are a lot of items that I wanted to cover and have written down. Please read on.
My name is Bill, and I have a 2000 Ford Explorer that I brought to your service center last Thursday for several items to be addressed. I had an ESPP warranty that expired on 9/25/05 or 100,000 miles, which I paid $1500 for shortly after I purchased the vehicle in 2000. I had not had a claim on that warranty until last week. I have used your service center for two major services for my Explorer, and have bought parts from your parts counter in the past. Until now, I have had no issue with dealership Ford.
I brought my vehicle to the service center last Thursday, and spoke with the advisor around 6pm. I detailed my concerns (loud rattling sound from timing chain area at startup, and leak from rear axle pinion area). I told him I wanted to have these items addressed before my warranty ran out. He said "No problem, powertrain concerns will be covered under your warranty, you're good to go." So I left the vehicle there, and told him to call me with an estimated completion time and let me know if anything was not going to be covered under warranty by calling my cell phone (I was going to be out of town on Friday, and wanted to speak with him before authorizing any non-warranty work). He said he'd let me know something by noon Friday.
By 3pm Friday, I had not heard anything back from the advisor, so I called him. He said "We didn't hear the sound you were talking about, and we didn't find anything wrong with the timing chain tensioner; put a pressure gauge on it and it's all within spec. Now if you want to do any further work, we'll have to pull the engine out." PULL THE ENGINE? When the timing chain tensioner recall was performed on the vehicle several years ago, I don't recall the engine being pulled! So, in effect, he's dismissing the timing chain work under warranty. Strike one.
The advisor then went on to say "Well, we did find some debris in your catalytic converter heat shield, and that was causing some noise." So he says "The charge to remove the debris isn't much, only about $25." Yep, just $25. So, my complaint of timing chain rattle isn't worth any more effort than dismissing it and telling me my noise is from debris in a heat shield. I believe I know the difference. Strike two.
Here's the real reason I'm writing. Yesterday, I went to pick the vehicle up. I noticed the charge to remove the debris was $35, not the $25 Bryan told me. I reminded the service desk attendant of that, and he did change that charge to $25. I went out to my vehicle, started it up, and heard the same LOUD RATTLE from the timing chain at startup. I was disgusted, but had to get back to work for a 1pm meeting.
Later in the afternoon, I reviewed the description of work, and I quote:
CHECK CONCERN REAR AXLE SEALS SEEM TO LEAK. CK FOR ANY GARBBBING (sic) AROUND TURNS
BEARING NOISE
ACCESS REAR AXLE REPLACED LEAKING PINION SEALS TOP OFF
PARTS USED
1 F89Z-4676-AA SEAL AS 366364
1 ZY-75W140-QL OIL-R 509956
Attached is the service invoice:
As a reminder, this is a 2000 Explorer XLT SOHC, with a conventional rear end, NOT Traction-Lok. The specified rear end oil for the non-Traction-LOK rear end is SAE 80W-90, part number XY-80W90-QL.
I have a friend who is an independent mechanic, and has access to the Ford Factory Service Manuals. I asked to review the sections on rear end work, and this is what I found:
The service procedure for replacing the pinion seal is pretty simple (attached):
However, it does require the pinion flange to come off, which isn't so easy (attached):
I see no evidence that the rear wheels were removed, which means the calipers can't be removed for the pinion preload setting (no dirt disturbed on the hubcap, no fingerprints or glovemarks anywhere). I also do not see scribed lines indicating the mating flanges on the pinion flange were aligned. Also, there is no mention of a new pinion flange nut on the parts list, which is included in note 5 in the pinion flange repair procedure..
In short, it looks to me like
the driveshaft was removed,
the old pinion nut removed,
the pinion flange removed,
the oil seal removed and replaced,
the pinion flange reinstalled,
the old pinion nut reinstalled,
the driveshaft reattached,
and the rear end topped off with the WRONG gear oil.
It also appears that the pinion bearing preload was not set, so I may experience premature rear end wear.
Strike three.
Here's what I'd like to do:
1. Discuss this matter with you in person.
2. Determine the best course of action to resolve my timing chain rattle under warranty.
3. Determine the best course of action to either replace my rear end or repair the damaged/improperly installed components.
4. Extend the ESPP warranty that I paid $1500 for to 12/31/2007 or 120,000 miles.
I can be reached by phone today after 9:30 am for the rest of the day. I will be happy to come by, but I am not sure that I should drive the vehicle with the rear end in the condition it is in. I did drive it 6 miles yesterday from your dealership to my work location, where it is still sitting. I am in need of a truck or SUV this weekend to perform some yardwork, so, if this repair work can not be completed by then, I will need a loaner Explorer or F150 pickup to pick up and return an aerator.
I look forward to your call.
Good morning, Mr. X. Let me apologize in advance for the length of this email, but there are a lot of items that I wanted to cover and have written down. Please read on.
My name is Bill, and I have a 2000 Ford Explorer that I brought to your service center last Thursday for several items to be addressed. I had an ESPP warranty that expired on 9/25/05 or 100,000 miles, which I paid $1500 for shortly after I purchased the vehicle in 2000. I had not had a claim on that warranty until last week. I have used your service center for two major services for my Explorer, and have bought parts from your parts counter in the past. Until now, I have had no issue with dealership Ford.
I brought my vehicle to the service center last Thursday, and spoke with the advisor around 6pm. I detailed my concerns (loud rattling sound from timing chain area at startup, and leak from rear axle pinion area). I told him I wanted to have these items addressed before my warranty ran out. He said "No problem, powertrain concerns will be covered under your warranty, you're good to go." So I left the vehicle there, and told him to call me with an estimated completion time and let me know if anything was not going to be covered under warranty by calling my cell phone (I was going to be out of town on Friday, and wanted to speak with him before authorizing any non-warranty work). He said he'd let me know something by noon Friday.
By 3pm Friday, I had not heard anything back from the advisor, so I called him. He said "We didn't hear the sound you were talking about, and we didn't find anything wrong with the timing chain tensioner; put a pressure gauge on it and it's all within spec. Now if you want to do any further work, we'll have to pull the engine out." PULL THE ENGINE? When the timing chain tensioner recall was performed on the vehicle several years ago, I don't recall the engine being pulled! So, in effect, he's dismissing the timing chain work under warranty. Strike one.
The advisor then went on to say "Well, we did find some debris in your catalytic converter heat shield, and that was causing some noise." So he says "The charge to remove the debris isn't much, only about $25." Yep, just $25. So, my complaint of timing chain rattle isn't worth any more effort than dismissing it and telling me my noise is from debris in a heat shield. I believe I know the difference. Strike two.
Here's the real reason I'm writing. Yesterday, I went to pick the vehicle up. I noticed the charge to remove the debris was $35, not the $25 Bryan told me. I reminded the service desk attendant of that, and he did change that charge to $25. I went out to my vehicle, started it up, and heard the same LOUD RATTLE from the timing chain at startup. I was disgusted, but had to get back to work for a 1pm meeting.
Later in the afternoon, I reviewed the description of work, and I quote:
CHECK CONCERN REAR AXLE SEALS SEEM TO LEAK. CK FOR ANY GARBBBING (sic) AROUND TURNS
BEARING NOISE
ACCESS REAR AXLE REPLACED LEAKING PINION SEALS TOP OFF
PARTS USED
1 F89Z-4676-AA SEAL AS 366364
1 ZY-75W140-QL OIL-R 509956
Attached is the service invoice:
As a reminder, this is a 2000 Explorer XLT SOHC, with a conventional rear end, NOT Traction-Lok. The specified rear end oil for the non-Traction-LOK rear end is SAE 80W-90, part number XY-80W90-QL.
I have a friend who is an independent mechanic, and has access to the Ford Factory Service Manuals. I asked to review the sections on rear end work, and this is what I found:
The service procedure for replacing the pinion seal is pretty simple (attached):
However, it does require the pinion flange to come off, which isn't so easy (attached):
I see no evidence that the rear wheels were removed, which means the calipers can't be removed for the pinion preload setting (no dirt disturbed on the hubcap, no fingerprints or glovemarks anywhere). I also do not see scribed lines indicating the mating flanges on the pinion flange were aligned. Also, there is no mention of a new pinion flange nut on the parts list, which is included in note 5 in the pinion flange repair procedure..
In short, it looks to me like
the driveshaft was removed,
the old pinion nut removed,
the pinion flange removed,
the oil seal removed and replaced,
the pinion flange reinstalled,
the old pinion nut reinstalled,
the driveshaft reattached,
and the rear end topped off with the WRONG gear oil.
It also appears that the pinion bearing preload was not set, so I may experience premature rear end wear.
Strike three.
Here's what I'd like to do:
1. Discuss this matter with you in person.
2. Determine the best course of action to resolve my timing chain rattle under warranty.
3. Determine the best course of action to either replace my rear end or repair the damaged/improperly installed components.
4. Extend the ESPP warranty that I paid $1500 for to 12/31/2007 or 120,000 miles.
I can be reached by phone today after 9:30 am for the rest of the day. I will be happy to come by, but I am not sure that I should drive the vehicle with the rear end in the condition it is in. I did drive it 6 miles yesterday from your dealership to my work location, where it is still sitting. I am in need of a truck or SUV this weekend to perform some yardwork, so, if this repair work can not be completed by then, I will need a loaner Explorer or F150 pickup to pick up and return an aerator.
I look forward to your call.