relay questions????

[jake122288]

SO i have two pairs of aux lights on my truck now both which run 55w h3 bulbs... one pair has a relay the other does not..here is my wiring setup...i have a roof mounted switch box which has a single 12 gauge wire running direct from the battery to a fuse block and then to my 8 switches (only two are used as of now but adding more accessories later) and then from each switch a wire runs to the accessory... the one has a relay the other doesnt as i stated.. I have about a million stock relays laying around (the ones for the fuel pump/abs/all that stuff under the hood) is there a way i can turn around and use these for my aux lights?

question number 2... with the lights that do have a relay.. i like to be able to turn my lights on for a brief period of time without the truck running or headlights on is ti wrong to put the live wire for the relay and the switched power (by toggle switch) for the relay both directly off the battery???

 

[FIND]

Yes, you can use those relays. I can't remember the pinout on those relays, but it is printed on the relays themselves...

You should be using heavier wire than 12 gauge to run all that, especially if you plan on expanding. For just the two pairs of offroad lights you are using right now with 55 watt bulbs, I'd say minimum 10 gauge, 12 gauge will work, but you will be near the limit of the current the wire should be handling. When it comes to electrical appliances, I have always lived in the world of better safe than sorry, and I am big on over-engineering these types of things. Rule of thumb: If you can afford to add electrical customization, you can afford heavier gauge wiring.

Yes, you can run your offroad lights with the truck shut off. The draw they take to ignite the bulbs is quite high, but only momentary so not a big deal. Running they only will draw around 18 amps (well, after everything else it will end up closer to 20) for 4 55 watt bulbs, which is about as much as stock headlights and all the incandescent marker lights would draw. Can't tell you for sure, because I can't remember the wattage of all the bulbs or how many we are talking about. Either way, a 20 amp draw would take a couple hours to kill a good battery.

 

[hondakillah]

Question 2 is answered, so I'll just put in my 2 pennies.

Starting off, I have to agree with FIND. Minimum 10 gauge wire for extra lights is a big thing for me. If you have too much current running through the wires you can melt them. And on the electricity side of the deal, the longer and more narrow the wire, the more power that is lost by the time the current reaches it's source.

When you're wiring up your lights, make sure to use a relay like the one I've added below. 30 is the power coming from the battery and 87 and 87a are the power (from the battery) that go to the lights.

86 and 85 are for your switch. One pole goes to your battery, in the case that you want the lights to work with the truck not running, otherwise it goes to an all ready switched power (adding a fuse to the fuse block can do that). And the other pole is grounded out.

 

[FIND]

Question 2 is answered, so I'll just put in my 2 pennies.

Starting off, I have to agree with FIND. Minimum 10 gauge wire for extra lights is a big thing for me. If you have too much current running through the wires you can melt them. And on the electricity side of the deal, the longer and more narrow the wire, the more power that is lost by the time the current reaches it's source.

When you're wiring up your lights, make sure to use a relay like the one I've added below. 30 is the power coming from the battery and 87 and 87a are the power (from the battery) that go to the lights.

86 and 85 are for your switch. One pole goes to your battery, in the case that you want the lights to work with the truck not running, otherwise it goes to an all ready switched power (adding a fuse to the fuse block can do that). And the other pole is grounded out.

That is not exactly correct. On that style relay, 87a and 30 are an always closed circuit. 87 and 30 is a normally open circuit that closes when there is a current through 85 and 86. This means, 87a and 30 are always connected, and 87 and 30 are only connected when you energize the other side of the relay. Also, power loss isn't the big issue with thinner gauge wire..... thinner wire equals greater resistance, too much current over too much resistance means heat, which means melted insulation that ends up meaning shorts.

I believe on the ford fuel pump relay, pins 1 & 2 are the side you energize to switch the relay, 3 & 5 are closed when you have power to 1 & 2. I cannot remember if 3 & 4 is always closed, or if it opens when 1 & 2 are energized. Remember, closed means connected, open means disconnected. The ford relays, like your fuel pump relay, are all 20 amp relays, so you are golden as long as you aren't putting too much on them.

The type of relay hondakillah pictured is generally 30 amp, is available cheap from any parts store, and is generally the best and easiest to use. You can even get plug in harnesses for those types of relays so you can get a nice clean factory look and quality.

 

[Mountaineer1113]

This site helped me out a lot...

http://www.bcae1.com/relays.htm

Find is right on the money but if you're like me, visuals help out a lot more than just words.

 

[FIND]

This site helped me out a lot...

http://www.bcae1.com/relays.htm

Find is right on the money but if you're like me, visuals help out a lot more than just words.

Good link

 

[jake122288]

Yes, you can use those relays. I can't remember the pinout on those relays, but it is printed on the relays themselves...

You should be using heavier wire than 12 gauge to run all that, especially if you plan on expanding. For just the two pairs of offroad lights you are using right now with 55 watt bulbs, I'd say minimum 10 gauge, 12 gauge will work, but you will be near the limit of the current the wire should be handling. When it comes to electrical appliances, I have always lived in the world of better safe than sorry, and I am big on over-engineering these types of things. Rule of thumb: If you can afford to add electrical customization, you can afford heavier gauge wiring.

Yes, you can run your offroad lights with the truck shut off. The draw they take to ignite the bulbs is quite high, but only momentary so not a big deal. Running they only will draw around 18 amps (well, after everything else it will end up closer to 20) for 4 55 watt bulbs, which is about as much as stock headlights and all the incandescent marker lights would draw. Can't tell you for sure, because I can't remember the wattage of all the bulbs or how many we are talking about. Either way, a 20 amp draw would take a couple hours to kill a good battery.

I do plan on adding larger wire (10 gauge was my plan) and actually runnign four seperate 10 gauge wires up to my switch panel (one wire per 2 switches)... just havent been able to get the wiring yet due to holidays!. as for the relays i am deff going to wire in one of the stock relays for my fogs tonight...

 

[FIND]

I do plan on adding larger wire (10 gauge was my plan) and actually runnign four seperate 10 gauge wires up to my switch panel (one wire per 2 switches)... just havent been able to get the wiring yet due to holidays!. as for the relays i am deff going to wire in one of the stock relays for my fogs tonight...

what are your plans for what you are going to wire to that panel?

 

[OneLever]

Would you mind drawing up a simple wiring diagram in paint so we can see what you're thinking about?

 

[Bill Kemp]

Yes, you can use those relays. I can't remember the pinout on those relays, but it is printed on the relays themselves...

You should be using heavier wire than 12 gauge to run all that, especially if you plan on expanding. For just the two pairs of offroad lights you are using right now with 55 watt bulbs, I'd say minimum 10 gauge, 12 gauge will work, but you will be near the limit of the current the wire should be handling. When it comes to electrical appliances, I have always lived in the world of better safe than sorry, and I am big on over-engineering these types of things. Rule of thumb: If you can afford to add electrical customization, you can afford heavier gauge wiring.

Yes, you can run your offroad lights with the truck shut off. The draw they take to ignite the bulbs is quite high, but only momentary so not a big deal. Running they only will draw around 18 amps (well, after everything else it will end up closer to 20) for 4 55 watt bulbs, which is about as much as stock headlights and all the incandescent marker lights would draw. Can't tell you for sure, because I can't remember the wattage of all the bulbs or how many we are talking about. Either way, a 20 amp draw would take a couple hours to kill a good battery.

Check out this site as it gives you the way to figure out iwre size. http://www.rallylights.com/hella/SensibleWiring.aspx

 

[FIND]

Check out this site as it gives you the way to figure out iwre size. http://www.rallylights.com/hella/SensibleWiring.aspx

I was basing it on an ~20 amp draw with enough wiring he is probably pretty near going 20 feet. Like I said, he would be ok with 12 gauge just for that, but he is getting pretty high up there for the limits for that wiring, and part of my suggestion has to do with the fact it is not just resistance from the wiring you need to account for. I would still just go with the 10 gauge, that gives him a larger margin of error to account for the electrical resistance of the connectors, switches, fuse block and the increased resistance of the wire as it gets older. But that chart is pretty good, pretty well in line with what I usually figure. Generally speaking though, I like to allow for 25% greater current than what an appliance draws.

 

[jake122288]

mostly it is for aux lighting...with the 2 pair i have now i plan on addind 4 or 5 more to a roof rack im building (will run on 2 seperate switches and 2 relays) and then 2 lights facing the rear (ran off a single switch and single relay). i also have some cheap l.e.d. neon light bars im adding to the interior (6 total with one switch for them all and possibly a relay if needed) then im using a switch which will be a switched wire for my amps REM wire (wire from the back of the hu to the switch then to the amp) and the other switch well i have no idea what it will be used for its just a backup in case i find something else along with the room to add 2 more switches later if needed..

my switch panel is mounted above the rear view mirror... wires i have now run direct from the battery through the pass. fender in the door wire loom then up the a pillar and across under the head liner... then from the switches the wires run across the under the headliner and down the a pillar and through the drivers door and to a relay panel i made under the hood on the drivers side.. and then the wires run where needed from the relays (ground point in the switch box is on the mounting screws for the box and relay grounds are on the relay mounting panel i made)

with 4 10 gauge wires i would think it'd be plenty beings the most a single one of the wires is runnign is two of the switches... and most of the lights i get im sticking with the 55w bulbs...

 

[Bill Kemp]

10 gauge is a ***** to work with and usually not necessary for aux lights. The specifications used for OEM are less than the Rally Lights spects. Which as we all know are the minimum at best. We want NO voltage drop.
Everyone should do as they like &/or are comfortable with but, overengineering will not make your lights any brighter or last any longer.

 

[FIND]

10 gauge is a ***** to work with and usually not necessary for aux lights..

I really don't see how it is a ***** to work with..... it is barely any larger than 12 gauge, hardly costs any more, almost as easy to bend or flex (which means easier when trying to fish through areas) and you can use the same size connectors as when working with 12 gauge. I mean I would understand if we were talking 8, 6 or 4... but any wiring 10-18 gauge are just super easy to work with. I'm not saying you should be running 10 gauge wires for something like speakers, but personally, with a 20 amp draw, I'd like to see some heavy wiring. If it were just a single pair of lights powered off that wire, it would be a different story. Besides, this way, if he decides to go back to incandescent bulbs, he is still covered.

 

[jake122288]

That is not exactly correct. On that style relay, 87a and 30 are an always closed circuit. 87 and 30 is a normally open circuit that closes when there is a current through 85 and 86. This means, 87a and 30 are always connected, and 87 and 30 are only connected when you energize the other side of the relay. Also, power loss isn't the big issue with thinner gauge wire..... thinner wire equals greater resistance, too much current over too much resistance means heat, which means melted insulation that ends up meaning shorts.

I believe on the ford fuel pump relay, pins 1 & 2 are the side you energize to switch the relay, 3 & 5 are closed when you have power to 1 & 2. I cannot remember if 3 & 4 is always closed, or if it opens when 1 & 2 are energized. Remember, closed means connected, open means disconnected. The ford relays, like your fuel pump relay, are all 20 amp relays, so you are golden as long as you aren't putting too much on them.

The type of relay hondakillah pictured is generally 30 amp, is available cheap from any parts store, and is generally the best and easiest to use. You can even get plug in harnesses for those types of relays so you can get a nice clean factory look and quality.

so im finally getting around to installing relays and 10 gauge wire...all that is printed on the ford relays is 1, 2, 3, 4 by the pins (they are out of an older first gen when they were below the power dist box so i have the wire plugs and everything to mount and make it look clean.) so which pins do i need the live from the battery and then the input from my switch the output to the lights and then ground? i also noticed pin number 2 is split between two pins and pin four is shorter than the rest and has no wire coming out of the harness (its too short to even put a connector on it anyway...