Second Alternator = Free Energy?

[brihan]

Hi Everyone,

I'm here to bounce an idea off of you. Please chime in with your pros and cons of the idea.

I've been following the HHO thread and am very interested in finding more MPG not only for the saving but also for the "can it be done" factor.

One thing that has come up many times is extra load on the alternator because of increased AMP demands on the ALT.

An alternator with no electrical demand (disconnected if you will) has no resistance to speak of, right?

What if........ you were to mount a second battery (deep cycle) along with a second, high output alternator. This second alternator would be mounted under the truck from the frame being driven from a pulley/belt off the drive shaft (it's been done for other cars/applications).

Now, the only time that this alternator would be "connected" producing current/resistance would be at closed throttle or deceleration thus using the mas/weight of the truck and gravity on down hills to produce the energy. If needed while driving long distance on level ground and override could be switched to allow the alternator to kick in if needed until the deep cycle batter is charged up again. Hopefully this would not be often. I need someone to help with all the load calculations. I'm just the idea man

Now, hoping that the above make sense and would work I think it would be overkill to use this separate battery/alt just for just the HHO so what if...... You were to install an electric motor and belt (off of, by or around) the A/C power steering pump and have this electric motor/belt drive the A/C, Power Steering and water pump (Using an electric radiator fan too).

Now you have relieved your motor of the HP/MPG robbing resistance of the A/C, Power Steering and water pump and most or all of the electrical power used to now power these items is coming from the free power generated from the decel closed throttle gravity fed momentum alternator and deep cycle battery.

I would leave the original Alternator connected by belt to the crank pulley (so that is the only thing the engine is turning) to run the truck and/or for emergency power if in stopped traffic for to long.

Thoughts?

Thanks,

Brian

 

[MountaineerGreen]

Why not use a turbo driven alternator- it is truly free power.

The alternator on the driveshaft will still use the same amount of power as if it were on the motor unless you are coasting as you said.

The ultimate way to get free power is run a turbo to drive an alternator and drive all accessories with an electric motor. You can use your auto transmission for a power steering pump to eliminate that drag without too much trouble.

 

[aldive]

Brian, I just don't see the need.

 

[IZwack]

The concept mentioned is very similar to regenerative braking and most electric hybrids these days I think use this to recoup some of the energy while slowing down.

 

[redneck21]

I kinda don't see then need to do all that. The straine on the engine from the A/C,P/S and fan are not that much maybe on a small 4 cyl maybe but not a 4.0 v6 so maybe 5 mpg more. If you got a bigger atl and a 2nd batter it would do the same thing. PPl running batters for sup systems and just have a bigger high output atl and new wires.

 

[Charlie]

The concept mentioned is very similar to regenerative braking and most electric hybrids these days I think use this to recoup some of the energy while slowing down.

That, however, I believe would be very hard to "add on"

 

[V8BoatBuilder]

Interesting Idea, you'd have to use the front driveshaft as your power source as the rear moves up/down with the axle.

If you were OK with losing your 4wd, you could couple the alternator to the front t-case output, and then select whether or not you were powering it at all.

 

[racinjason68]

Now you have the extra weight to deal with.... Is it really worth it?
How about props on electric motors in front of the vehicle? Or say alt with fan blade then when going down highway it should be spinning like crazy with the wind.... But then... You have to allow for the extra wind drag cause by the prop and alt and then too the extra weight.


Have to keep in mind weight to gain ratio.

 

[dogfriend]

What if........ you were to mount a second battery (deep cycle) along with a second, high output alternator. This second alternator would be mounted under the truck from the frame being driven from a pulley/belt off the drive shaft (it's been done for other cars/applications).

Now, the only time that this alternator would be "connected" producing current/resistance would be at closed throttle or deceleration thus using the mas/weight of the truck and gravity on down hills to produce the energy. If needed while driving long distance on level ground and override could be switched to allow the alternator to kick in if needed until the deep cycle batter is charged up again. Hopefully this would not be often. I need someone to help with all the load calculations. I'm just the idea man

Now, hoping that the above make sense and would work I think it would be overkill to use this separate battery/alt just for just the HHO so what if...... You were to install an electric motor and belt (off of, by or around) the A/C power steering pump and have this electric motor/belt drive the A/C, Power Steering and water pump (Using an electric radiator fan too).

Now you have relieved your motor of the HP/MPG robbing resistance of the A/C, Power Steering and water pump and most or all of the electrical power used to now power these items is coming from the free power generated from the decel closed throttle gravity fed momentum alternator and deep cycle battery.

I would leave the original Alternator connected by belt to the crank pulley (so that is the only thing the engine is turning) to run the truck and/or for emergency power if in stopped traffic for to long.

Thoughts?

Thanks,

Brian

What you are describing is a (crude) regenerative braking system. You aren't really getting "free" energy with this; you are recapturing some of the energy that would otherwise be lost in engine braking during coasting or lost as heat when you use the brakes. But you burned fuel to get the truck moving in the first place. You had to pay for that fuel.

The Toyota HSD design uses regenerative braking to help charge the HV (201V) battery that is onboard. It then uses that energy to: run the electric AC compressor, run the electric power steering assist, run the electric water pump(s) to circulate coolant (more on this below) , run the brake accumulator pump to provide brake assist for the hydraulic part of the brake system and runs a DC to DC converter to recharge the 12v battery used to "boot" the computer(s). And one other thing: it provides power to move the car using the electric motors.

So, the HSD design eliminates the belts as you mentioned in your design except for one: there is still a water pump belt to power the water pump. Why? Because the mechanical drive is more efficient than converting mechanical power to electrical power and then converting electric power to mechanical power to circulate coolant. By the (awful but true) 2nd law of thermodynamics, every conversion of power will lose some energy.

But wait, why did they eliminate the other belts (and the alternator and power steering pump) and use electric powered equivalents? Because you can drive the car around on battery power with the engine off.

The best way to save gas (and lower emissions) is to shut the engine off. :