Self-healing torque converter rattle?

[D Hook]

I was running errands the other day and noticed from the start that I had a rattle under the car ('06 V-8). Doing a little testing, it seems it would only rattle when I accelerated from a stop and it would stop rattling when I let off the gas and coasted. Didn't notice the rattle decreasing as it went through the gears, all the way to 6th gear. Sitting at a stop light I couldn't hear anything. Then I would accelerate again and the rattle would come back. Shutting off the O/D made no difference in the sound.

So when I got home, I could just barely hear the rattle when it was idling in the drive way. Took a look underneath and couldn't see anything. It started to sound like something was loose and being hit my the fan blade but the sound was not coming from the radiator area but rather further back. Maybe a heat shield. Couldn't pinpoint the sound's exact location. I was beginning to think it was the rattle from a worn out torque converter because it had a metallic, rattling sound, sort of random. But when in neutral, it would lessen when the engine speed increased. No rattle when reversing. No code lights on the dash. Shifting felt normal.

So later in the day I had to go downtown and took the interstate to get there. Running around 70mph for about 10 minutes, then exit to surface streets. Everything sounded fine, ran good and no code lights showed up. When I got downtown, the noise was gone. Nothing on acceleration, no random rattle, nothing. Running normal. I suppose if it was a heat shield, it could've fallen off maybe. The car is pretty rusty underneath so it wouldn't surprise me if it did.

In the past couple months I've had the water pump changed and the starter changed. That's about it for repairs lately.

The next couple days driving was also normal, no rattle etc.

So is it possible this could be from a low transmission fluid situation? Last time I took a good look under the car was about a month ago I had the oil changed and the tech pointed out the seeping around the transmission pan, just moist, not dripping. I've seen no puddles or drips on the driveway. Most (90%) of my driving is just around town for the past 6-8 months so it doesn't see highway speeds much. Is it possible this type of driving could cause something to make the converter be starved for fluid? I've read on the board how sensitive the 6-speed transmissions are to low fluid and it could be the seeping I saw was enough, over time to lower the fluid level. The last time the fluid level would have been checked was probably 7-8 years ago when I had it in for a pan drop/fluid change. Many years but only about 40,000 miles since then.

So I 'm taking it to a very good transmission shop in late July. (He's pretty stacked up so can't get in for about 3 weeks from now.) Going to get a pan drop and fluid change. It's due for it anyway. I'll ask them to check for shavings in the pan since that seems to be a good indicator of a t-converter going south. I would appreciate any insight others might have. I've been reading up on the t-converter rattle here and haven't read anything about an intermittent rattle so thought I'd ask.

Thanks!

 

[94Eddie]

I know the 6R60/80 transmissions are picky about fluid level and condition. Mine had a slight shifting issue when I bought it at a little over 100k miles. A pan drop, fluid drain, new filter and refill made the problem go away. I did another drain and refill shortly after to get 75%-80% of the fluid exchanged and it shifts like butter now. If your fluid is past due for a drain and refill there are good odds this will make a difference. Also clear the PCM of learned data to remove any glitches it might have learned dealing with low or worn fluid. If your Explorer has over 100k miles I recommend spending $20 for a Ford OEM valve body sleeve and replacing it while the pan is down. This is a known failure point for these transmissions and to replace it requires a pan drop. It takes less than five minutes to change it out.

 

[D Hook]

Mine did as well. Had the shudder at around 50-55 mph and on the highway would occasionally drop out of O/D. But same as you, did a pan drop and fluid change and issue went away. I'm hoping this pan drop will help.

I think I'll take it to my regular mechanic and have him check underneath for heat shields, too.

 

[94Eddie]

If you have a pan gasket leak then this could cause a low fluid level over time. I would recommend getting a new gasket to install when the pan drop is done. How many miles since you did the last drain and refill?

 

[D Hook]

About 40K. Gasket is supposed to be reusable, according to the tranny shop but he said it's only about $40 to buy and install a new one.

 

[94Eddie]

About 40K. Gasket is supposed to be reusable, according to the tranny shop but he said it's only about $40 to buy and install a new one.

They are reusable but it seems that they can not not take much abuse before the seal in compromised. I had to replace mine on the second drain and refill. I also had leaking valve body sleeve so you might want to check it for leaks or just replace it while they have easy access to it.

 

[D Hook]

I think I recall him mentioning something about the sleeve as well.

 

[94Eddie]

The sleeve leaking can cause issues from the plug letting fluid get into the connection point between the plug and internal electronics.

 

[96eb96]

About 40K. Gasket is supposed to be reusable, according to the tranny shop but he said it's only about $40 to buy and install a new one.

I have this same trans (well 6R80, similar to 09-10 ex). In my 11 F150. I was able to drain over 10 quarts just by letting it sit 2 days, I also cracked the cooler lines in the front, drained the cooler. This is pretty close to a flush. I also had a slight leak, in the rear, I replaced the gasket with a Felpro (no rubber). The old gasket looked ok (maybe a tad bit compressed), but it is a $20 part on rockauto. At 186K, don't owe anything. I inspected my round connector gasket and it is dry, not really a concern after 2010.

You can also buy a dorman pan for $27 that has a plug, this makes drain a lot easier. The original ZF had a drain. I got the pan, it was scratched on the gasket area, decided to send it back, put the original. I don't drive the truck much and won't be doing this for years anyway. I have a way to pump out most of the fluid anyway, takes about 30 seconds. The fluid was black, that is expected, just a black coating on the magnet.

Make sure there are no misfires, there is a mode 6 to check for that. It could manifest in a trans issue (usually shudder, not rattle). Sometimes the CEL won't come on. You can also get Forscan, it will allow you to lock and unlock the converter manually, this can help with diagnosis.

 

[Bazz270]

Sure about it is not the camshaft followers rattle?
Clogged/low pressure/bad bearing camshaft plunger will cause a rocker bearing rattle especially with old factory timing kit low pressure problems

 

[D Hook]

Sure about it is not the camshaft followers rattle?
Clogged/low pressure/bad bearing camshaft plunger will cause a rocker bearing rattle especially with old factory timing kit low pressure problems

Yes, I'm sure. The sound was coming from under the vehicle. It stopped after a 10 minute drive at interstate speed and hasn't come back.

 

[D Hook]

I have this same trans (well 6R80, similar to 09-10 ex). In my 11 F150. I was able to drain over 10 quarts just by letting it sit 2 days, I also cracked the cooler lines in the front, drained the cooler. This is pretty close to a flush. I also had a slight leak, in the rear, I replaced the gasket with a Felpro (no rubber). The old gasket looked ok (maybe a tad bit compressed), but it is a $20 part on rockauto. At 186K, don't owe anything. I inspected my round connector gasket and it is dry, not really a concern after 2010.

You can also buy a dorman pan for $27 that has a plug, this makes drain a lot easier. The original ZF had a drain. I got the pan, it was scratched on the gasket area, decided to send it back, put the original. I don't drive the truck much and won't be doing this for years anyway. I have a way to pump out most of the fluid anyway, takes about 30 seconds. The fluid was black, that is expected, just a black coating on the magnet.

Make sure there are no misfires, there is a mode 6 to check for that. It could manifest in a trans issue (usually shudder, not rattle). Sometimes the CEL won't come on. You can also get Forscan, it will allow you to lock and unlock the converter manually, this can help with diagnosis.

Great info. I'm going to look into the pan option. The noise hasn't come back since I posted this thread a few days ago.

No shudder, transmission is shifting as it always did.

I have Forscan. Haven't seen anything out of the ordinary. It's going into a transmission shop for a pan drop and fluid change (no power flush) in a few days so I'll post back when I get the results.

Thanks guys!

 

[94Eddie]

Great info. I'm going to look into the pan option. The noise hasn't come back since I posted this thread a few days ago.

No shudder, transmission is shifting as it always did.

I have Forscan. Haven't seen anything out of the ordinary. It's going into a transmission shop for a pan drop and fluid change (no power flush) in a few days so I'll post back when I get the results.

Thanks guys!

The Dorman pan is not compatible with the Explorer's trans filter. The pan isn't deep enough. I know this because I bought one and found it did not fit. I opted to have a bung welded into the OEM pan. There might be a 6R60/80 trans filter from another model like the F150, 2011+ Mustangs etc. that might work with the Dorman pan.

 

[D Hook]

The Dorman pan is not compatible with the Explorer's trans filter. The pan isn't deep enough. I know this because I bought one and found it did not fit. I opted to have a bung welded into the OEM pan. There might be a 6R60/80 trans filter from another model like the F150, 2011+ Mustangs etc. that might work with the Dorman pan.

Good to know! thanks!

 

[D Hook]

Follow up:

Got it in for the pan drop and had the valve body sleeve changed and the gasket. Haven't heard that noise since I first posted so I'm guessing it was a heat shield or something that was rattling and then must've fallen off.

So the pan drop went ok, tech said fluid looked good, no shavings in the pan to speak of, so all seems to be well. They road-tested it and it passed. But they did mention I have a front wheel bearing going so I guess that's next. Still cheaper than a car payment!

This is a great transmission shop, compared to the first place I took it to about 10 years ago. I found the receipt for the work they did about 10 years ago. I just wanted a pan drop/filter change to address the shudder at 50-60 mph. They did a road test and said I needed a new transmission, which I know was BS. I drove it for years after that and had no more shudder and trans shifted fine. So I'm guessing the owner just had a boat payment to make and thought I'd go for the new transmission since the vehicle was new to me at the time. Took it to a better shop this time and everything checked out fine. So I'm calling this fixed.

Thanks for all the help.

 

[rego]

The Dorman pan is not compatible with the Explorer's trans filter. The pan isn't deep enough. I know this because I bought one and found it did not fit. I opted to have a bung welded into the OEM pan. There might be a 6R60/80 trans filter from another model like the F150, 2011+ Mustangs etc. that might work with the Dorman pan.

Verified fit. At least for my 2008 6R60. 1,000 miles on this swap so far.
The Dorman 265-854 pan works with a Motorcraft FT-188 filter. The only difference I saw the original filter and the FT-188 was the pick up tube length.
I also replaced the bulkhead sleeve O rings. Seal kit BL3Z-7Z276-A. Had a hard time pushing the white retainer clip back up but after pushing hard on the bulkhead sleeve it went.
To make pan removal a bit easier I drilled a small hole where I would install a drain plug if I had to. No mess when the pan came down.
Pan bolt torque is 97 inch lbs.