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Sound Deadening the Ex

Kazer

Explorer Addict
Joined
March 13, 2010
Messages
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City, State
Sneads Ferry, NC
Year, Model & Trim Level
2001 Excursion PSD
hey guys, i'm looking for a winter project and want to apply dynamat, fatmat, brownbread, or similar sound deadner to my truck. My flowmaster original 40 has a stupid loud interior drone to it and i'd like to get a little bit better bass from my coaxials.

So what brand would you guys recommend? should i invest in the dynamat roller? and can i lay this stuff when its cold outside? ive got a small propane heater for my garage but the body of the truck will still be cold.

should i do my doors and rear hatch as well? and do you usually just do the floor or the sides of the truck behind the rear seats?

any input and/or pictures will be greatly appreciated.

thanks guys
-steve
 



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Buy dynamat! It is crazy easy to work with and relatively affordable. I used it for my dads 2011 SRT8 Challenger. He is a musician like me so when he listens to music, that's all he wants to hear. I would do it to my ex in a heartbeat. BUT..... new tires are higher up on the list....
 






THIS IS LONG!!! You may want to get a beverage or 6 and maybe even print it…

ok... let's get some basics down first, before we talk brands.

1. exhaust drone and tire noise will only be knocked down a small amount with "Peel-n-stick" type dynamat products. Buytl P-n-S products address panel resonance/vibrations so all you are doing is loading what ever the product is stuck to with more mass to lower is resonance.

2a. P-n-S usage has changed ALOT since Dynamat hit the market in the Late 80's. Back then until recently it was believed that the more you put on the more benefit.. totally wrong. All you are doing after a full layer is adding weight to the car. Mainly see #1 above. once you load the panel. you are done.

2b. Also, the original notion of more-is-better, has been proven overkill and not necessary. A checker board pattern of 25-50% is MORE than adequate on major spans like the floor and roof in a single layer. We will discuss full coverage and multiple layers later.

Because of 2b man companies have changed packaging & gone from selling large rolls to 12" x 12" squares or 16" x 16" squares for many reasons. Packaging, shelf space, etc. But mainly because the manufacturers are accepting that partial coverage, since "checker boarding" during install is what customers are generally doing.

3. Application Tips :

* keep product inside at all times until ready to use. Only take out into areas under 65* the amount you can use for that short time to apply.

* Heat gun is MANDATORY if the vehicle is cold. heat up the area where your square is being laid down. it should be fairly warm to the touch. then gently heat the square.

* Rollers: the Wooden rollers everyone supplies are for rolling wall paper NOT deadening materials. Go to Lowes or Home Depot and get a Laminate, rubber roller. For putting down Formica counter top laminates. they won't pop or break, you can put more pressure on it, get more force into the corners and recesses. This is what you REALLY want:http://www.lowes.com/pd_290286-1687...ate+roller&N=0&langId=-1&storeId=10151&rpp=24 its $11.00 worth every penny

* Work from the middle out of the vehicle. Start on the trans tunnel run down it like a spine, then start your checkerboard out from there.

* Keep a couple paper backing pieces near by DO NOT throw away even the slightest scrap. They can be used on A-pillars, B-pillars, little nooks etc. If you trip off a scrap stick the scrap back on the backing paper.

* Cleanliness is next to sound quality utopia. You can and SHOULD leave the OE sound deadener in place. Just be sure to have a gallon of Wax-n-Grease(w-n-g) remover and some Scott blue shop towels. Put the W-n-G in a spray bottle. Spray, wipe repeat until the towel is virtually dirt free. work in small areas. If using 12" x 12" squares, do a 16"x16" area clean then heat etc.

* If exhaust and road/tire noise is a major issue (flowmaster mufflers, big tires etc) do a FULL DOUBLE layer on the wheel wells (inside the car. Also be sure to over lap the 2nd layer over the adjacent checker board. We will talk more about exhaust/road noise in a bit.

* On doors/trunks/lift-gates all apertures: Do your checkerboard on as much of the back side of the outer door skin as possible. THEN do a full single payer on the inner door skin where the door panel mounts. this is one area where the rolled product comes in handy. Cover all the holes completely. If you ever need access, punch a hole, then recover with a piece of left over. This will help with the mid-bass output of the door speakers, help kill off a great deal of noise and give the door that soild "thud" we all want like a Mercedes or Caddy.

* Do not forget the B-pillar (the metal beam between the front and rear doors) Get those scraps working for you and get them on the back of the outer panel and then cover the inner section of the metal completely.

* Areas like the windshield posts (a-pillars) the rear c & D-pillars behind the rear doors and by the lift gate are also great places for random little scraps. Front A-pillars are a place where lots of wind noise get through. Also the little triangles at the tops of the doors where they often put tweeters are also wind-noise entry points.

4. Different types of noise need different types of deadening materials.

* P-n-S products, as I said are for resonating/vibrating panels.

*Mass-Loaded-Vinyl (MLV) is a product combining closed cell foam and a heavy vinyl layer. This is what you want over wheel wells, trunk/hatch floors, lower firewall to floor transitions, behind kick panels, etc. those are the areas where the most noise come in. if budget allows, the entire floor should be covered. Then where the trans-tunnel and floor meet, the MLV should be overlapped and taped with duct tape or better glues AND taped.

* Closed Cell Foam (CCF) is great for spray gluing to the back of plastic interior panels, between panels and their attaching points. Lots of people will do a soild P-n-S layer on the door, then a solid layer of CCF. Use the door panel as a template, trace on to the CCF, cut out. Spray glue to the door.

* Butyl Rope: or Butyl Tape is great for speaker mounting flanges, places where 2 metal pieces are bolted/screwed together.


5. Brands: here are links to the major players:
http://www.sounddeadenershowdown.com/cgi-bin/index.cgi
http://www.raamaudio.com/
http://www.b-quiet.com/
http://www.fatmat.com/
http://www.dynamat.com/
http://www.secondskinaudio.com/
http://www.lizardskin.com/
http://www.tcpglobal.com/detailsupplydepot/dsd18.aspx this site has various spray on products.

6. Best? There is not 1 company that does it all. They all offer various versions of the basic products. Some offer a version of everything, others, like Raam & Lizard Skin offer a tighter grouping of products. Shop for price and value in the amount you get per $ spent. It takes some calculating since they all offer products in a variety of sized tiles, or rolls, or bulk materials. Ebay is another option. Fat Mat is ALL over ebay for good prices.

7. Spray materials and bed liner materials: These are interesting since they can be applied inside AND outside the vehicle. They are great for panel resonance, keeping fumes and heat out of the interior.

8. how much time: a full deadening job in an Explorer/Monty (or any midsized SUV) will take a full morning just in getting the Truck blown apart. Then a full day + to do the entire truck. A Long weekend start to finish is a safe starting place. In my old F150 (super crew Ford) I had 4 full days with the interior out and working all day each day. But I did pretty much all you can do. The results are worth it.

9. Consider doing the Truck in stages over a couple-three weekends. Do the front compartment (front seat/dash area and front doors. Then the middle. Lastly the rear hatch area. Your arms and back will thank you.

10. The bottom line is what I call “ The law of diminishing returns.” The P-n-S will give you an audible sense of accomplishment with that solid “thud” of the doors and you can wow your friends, wife, and wive’s friends with the ever present “knock test”. The MLV layer will do the most for your own ears when you drive it. CCF alone will help with the rattle, squeaks and creeks. BUT… you have to gauge what you really want. You can easily wrap $400-600 in deadening. And as always that last $100 is sometimes hard to swallow, because you don’t always “hear” a difference.


With all that said what is my own receipie:
P-n-S as prescribed above, I use Be-Quiet, Fat mat, and Raam based on who’s got the deal, group buy on the forums or deals on Ebay.

MLV: I like the composite version with CCF attached better. Its less work and faster. Sound deadener Showdown sells its MLV without the CCF attached. I’ve used it and it works great as well. I just prefer the single step. However the composite is harder to get into some areas.

Spray: I like Raptor on the underside of the car it looks great,, easy to clean and does help reduce road noise.

Just my extended .02 worth....

Rob
 






PS: Brownbread is my all time favorite to work with it has been replaced by a new version. Its not as easy to work with but does a fine job.

PSS: one solution to your Flowmaster drone, is to go with a Magnaflow or Borla Xs series muffler. Im not a flowmaster fan, because every car I've installed them on has LOST power not gained it.

To support this read:

http://www.mustang50magazine.com/te...ler_comparison_test/muffler_dyno_numbers.html

they both significantly trounced the flowmaster in every measurement. If I can get away with it, I will be using a Borla in the wife's Monty.

Rob
 






Wow! Excellent breakdown, thank you.

Do you have any pictures of your f150 for reference? And could you explain the "checkerboard" method more? And will the pieces of p-n-s overlap each other or just butt right up next to each other? I will begin pricing out everything this week, how many square feet would you say is needed for an explorer? I'll be doing the floor from the firewall back, there rear hatch, b pillars, and the sides of the truck behind the second row. If I do all of those areas, will not doing the doors be noticeable?

Thank you
 






GREAT Info 2002Grey! Thanks, wish I would have read this last month.

Kazer, I used Dynamat and as other poster said, it was very easy to work with. No discernable odor I could tell-Huge Factor for me. So far I have only done the rear panels (2 door sport). Not fun to get into some of the areas, used a "wooden roller" and some plastic panel pullers, it layed down well. Will be getting a laminate roller as suggested when I do the doors and cargo area. Need more Dynamat, it is not cheap... Cheapest place I have found is amazon.
 






Not to steal the thread buuuuut
i was thinking of taking out the carpet and laying a layer of truck bedliner on the floor then put the carpet back, would this do the same thing or am i just crazy
 






Thanks Rob, that's a solid and full discussion of a large subject.
 






if you are going to do alot of offroading taking out the carpet and doing the bed liner would help but the carpet has a jute backing which is where the real noise reduction is. so yes its a start. The bedliner would do almost what P-n-S would do. Putting the MLV on top of the liner then add the carpet with jute backing you will notice a difference. The Doors and a-pillars will make the most noticeable change.

Checker boarding is just like it sounds think of a white/black checker board: the P-n-S is the white squares and the body of the truck is black. all white squares are touching, not overlapping. just like it sounds. the only time you worry about overlap and or covering with tape and seals is the MLV. Sealing/overlapping the CCF can help but not much.

calculating SQft is actually pretty easy: measure your floor length X width. then divide by 12 = rough Sq Ft. needed. THEN the trick is to multiply that # by 1.30 (or 30% overage) this is the total coverage needed to do the floor. with plenty of left over. use the same for the doors, measure 1 door, x4 doors x 1.5 that will give you enough to checkerboard the outer panel and full coverage the inner doors.

I have found that the 1.5 for the floor will give you almost will have enough to cover the roof in checker-board as well..

If you do all 4 doors x 1.5 you SHOULD have enough for the rear lift gate.

I am trying to recover a hard drive for pics of the F150... if I find any pics, I will post them.

Rob
 






Ok continuing with some more concepts...

In order of the brands I have used my preferences are:

P-n-S
Raam
Fat-Mat or Be-quiet tied
Sound Deadener Showdown
Second Skin
and honestly I wouldn't use Dynamat unless it was given to me. Everything has surpassed it in the last 5-6 years.

MLV:
Second Skin Luxuy liner Pro
Sound Deadener Showdown

CCF:
Raamaudio Esolite + Sound deadenr showdown MLV

Rob
 






Great info I will be doing my whole interior when the warm weather comes. I have all the supplies except the roller. Would doing the roof make any difference, or you think it is just a waste of money. I'll be taking down the headliner anyway. I have a tv in there I don't want. It's rattling and driving me nuts. Also can anyone point me in the direction for repairing the hole in headliner for tv. Boneyard ones hard to find in good shape.
 






1. yes roof will make a difference. What I usually do is solid stripps between the roof braces. THEN what ever the width of the brace is, I cut strips 2" wider than the brace and overlap onto the in between strips. be sure NOT to use dynamat or second skin P-n-S on the roof. Their adhesive tends to let go. If you are in excessively warm climate (south/south east US especially, I would consider a spray product.

2. Headliner hole repairs:

1. find a used headliner with a piece big enough that is flat to cover your hole. type of car doesn't matter. look for CHEAP pick-n-pul or pick-u-art places.

2. take your headliner, lay it over donor. trace with sharpie. Cut OUTSIDE your sharpie line. lay the patch into the hole. Tape on the INTERIOR side with duct tape. slather the pack side with 2-part plastic repair from 3m. let dry over night.

4. on interior side remove the duct tape, Take a 1/8" foam from Jo Ann's or Hancock fabrics and cover in as much 1 solid continuous piece as you can. if you must seam, run the solid piece right down the middle. leaving the original sides by the pillars uncovered. Get ultra suede, velvet, shag, fur or your fabirc of choice from Joann's or Hancock recover entire headliner in one piece. Problem solved.

Rob.

PS: there is NOT, absolutely NOT any spray-can adhesive that ill hold the headliner properly in any climate. Get DEP Weldwood Landau/Vinyl top o Max Contact-Contact Cement. Spray it on with an air gun if you can, otherwise use a foam brush in THIN even coats... DO NOT saturate through the fabric... it should be thin enough to stand on the back of the material. Cover the haedliner and the back of the material, follow instrutions on the can, let set for 4-30 minutes.. have help.. stick once... from middle out.
 






Thanks for the tips. Especially on the spray adhesive because that's exactly what I was going to use.
 






I also have first hand experience with Raammat and it is great stuff. Same with the Raam Esolite. Strong adhesive and you don't have to mess with spray glue.

All was installed on a friends truck (96 4Runner), and I am currently waiting for the weather to turn around so I can begin on my Ranger. Also, the Kobalt "j-roller" that Grey pointed out is a must. At least for accessible areas such as the floor. The doors will be a bit more tricky. I'll be sure to document the process of the Ranger.
 






Currently waiting to hear back on an offer I made on some 2lb. MLV :D
 












I thought about all this before when I had my mustang and the BIGGEST thing that held me back was the weight it added on! Alot of people would say it doesnt add much weight, but every lil bit counts, unless you dont care about the weight. Does anyone have a REAL, not a guess or you think you know the answer weight on how much it adds?
 






Well it just takes a little math. You'll need to figure out how many sq ft of material you will use, and then figure out how much the material weighs. For example; Raammat CLD tiles are .52lbs per sq ft. MLV comes in a variety of weights, anywhere from .5lb per sq ft, up to 2lbs ber sq ft. Add it up to find total weight gain.
 






Who wants to do math?! LOL! Will have to figure it out when my brain wants to actually do something!
 



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there is some spare house carpet padding at my house is it possible to use this material for sound deadening, and softer carpet
 






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