Starter/Ignition grind & squeel... plz help!

[Karmana]

Hello all, first time here, first post. I have a 92 Explorer EB, that has a handful of 'issues', but they can usually be lived with (low budget).

This started a few days ago. Twice in one night, there was a squeel/grind noise, when attempting to start the engine. After several bumps of the key, it started. The following morning (and since then), grind/squeel constant, no start. It sounded exactly like a broken pinion gear, spinning, but not engaging. So, pulled the starter, took it to Schucks. Starter tested out ok on the bench, but purchased new one anyway.

Replaced starter, and replaced the serpentine belt at the same time (it was severely cracked). Now, the truck starts every time, but there is still the grind/squeel sound, EVERY time the key is turned. I have massive corrosion with the battery cable terimals (always have, wire brush them when it gets bad- wich I have also done this time).

The solenoid on the firewall was replaced 4 months ago. So what in the heck is causing the squeel/grind?? Incidentally, my '88 Chevy PU does the same exact thing, but only when the battery is too low to start the truck. I'm confused....

Thanks in advance!

 

[walterd140]

Squeal/Grind? Maybe wrong end of the engine. Have you checked everything connected to the serpintine belt? How does the belt look? Cracked / worn?
I mention this because you say it squeals & I beleive it might be belt related. Does the noise go away?
Any chance you can pop the hood & have someone jump in to start & try to 'hear' where it is coming from? I find it helps sometimes to get underneath to hear noises better.
Walter

 

[Karmana]

I'd mentioned, that the belt was replaced at the same time- so it's brand new. The grind was the first 'sign' that something was wrong. I replaced the belt first, actually, after seeing how cracked the origional was. When that did not fix the problem, I replaced the starter. The squeel started after the starter was replaced.

This problem ONLY happens on starter cranking. As soon as you've backed off the key, and the motor is running, everything is fine.

 

[Rhett]

On my 1980 Vette, the flywheel had some cracked teeth on it, and it caused a grind/squeal sound on startup sometimes.

 

[walterd140]

The only thing that changes between start up & run is in start up the starter is engaged, so as Rhett pointed out, you may have fly wheel damage in there. How did the gear on the old starter look? An inspection of that might tell you some hint to how bad the fly wheel is.

 

[Karmana]

To be honest, I hadn't taken as careful a look as I should have... but 'at a glance', there did not seem to be anymore than 'normal' wear. I glanced at the flywheel, just to see if there were broken/missing teeth, and they were all there. Hrmmm.

Side note here, there are 2 additional wires leaving my negative post on the battery- 1 just grounds to the same frame point as the main negative cable, where does the other go? Also, on the positive terminal- 1 small wire goes to the firewall solenoid, then down to the push-clip on the starter- the main goes directly to the starter (I assume), are there any other places that cable might ground out? It looks like my positive cable is routed around the backside of the engine, then down to the starter... pain in the rear to access.

 

[savagefan]

You say the squeal started after the starter was replaced. Could be a bad rebuild, still have your receipt?

 

[Karmana]

You say the squeal started after the starter was replaced. Could be a bad rebuild, still have your receipt?

yeah, I assumed the squeel and grind were connected, since they happen at the same time... but after much wiggling of electrical connections, the grind seems to have gone away... but the squeel remains. Could it just be the new belt 'breaking in' ?

 

[savagefan]

No, the squeal would be present whenever the engine was running and not just at cranking.

 

[Karmana]

The problem has gotten worse... I got so frustrated at it, that I pretty much left it alone for about 2 months. The starter no longer engages the flexplate whatsoever. The pinion gear just spins... and spins... Now, coming back here and reading some more, after taking a break, I found this (more detailed than Rhett above):

Some of the symptoms that I found that would tell me it was going bad were.
Also one of the times that it cracked [the flexplate] out it had flexed so much that the starter would not engage the teeth to let it start and right before that happened the flexplate was starting to hit the bell housing and making an awful noise of metal grinding against metal.

Quote from post here

Since these symptoms are identical to my own, would that be my most probable diagnosis? Cracked flexplate?

If so, my next questions will deal with how to most easily drop the transmission... I've dropped a few manual trannys, but never an automatic

 

[savagefan]

Pull the starter and check the teeth on the ring gear. I changed my drive plate for this reason.

 

[Karmana]

Yep, found the problem. 2 of the 4 bolts holding the flexplate to the torque converter were VERY loose... flexplate rubbing bottom of bell housing, but just barely- like when the engine is revved.

So now, my only problem is... why won't my 5/8" wrench fit on the transmission cooler lines? 5/8" seems too loose... but 19/32 is too small. Is it possible this takes a 16mm? And is there such a thing as a 16mm flare wrench?

 

[LXNavajo_94]

yes they make flare wrenches in metric sizes. I work for volvo construction equipment and we have them

 

[Karmana]

Thanks everyone!

We're not up and running yet... but the problem IS the flex plate. I got it out, and this flexplate appears to be manufactured as TWO pieces.. (well 3, if you count the ring gear.) The center circle, the 'plate', and then the ring gear. The center circle appears to have twisted with higher torque than the 'plate', thereby tearing the plate at 2 points, 180 degrees from eachother...

New problem... The new flex plate I bought from Schucks auto, is 'supposed' to be the right one. But I noticed that it is a single piece plate, with the ring gear attached- only 2 parts. (not 3, like the one coming out) The one I took out however, has a nearly 1/2" built in 'spacer' - that center piece, that fits around the shaft, is about 3/4" thick roughly total... well, between 1/2" to 3/4". The new flexplate however, is only about 1/8" thick total in the center... Is this a problem???

Also- the two plates' holes don't line up... The mount holes for the engine line up to eachother... and the mount holes for the torque converter line up to eachother... but the two sets of mount holes, are spaced differently, so that BOTH sets are night lined up at the same time, as they are on the old plate. Does this matter?

I am about to take the flexplate back today... hope I don't sound like an idiot at the counter lol

 

[ma96782]

Take it back......bring your old one along for the ride.

Aloha, Mark

PS............Did you see this??

http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=160679&highlight=flex+plate

 

[savagefan]

Maybe turn the converter a bit.