Supercharger install 9+lb boost! Full build

[donalds]

 

[94Eddie]

its not lean he fixed all that now its heat pulling timing im gonna move the iat to the top plenum and add a solenoid to the meth and just a little more water
move the nozzle to a port on the intake
ill post a pic

I think injecting the water closer to the blower intake would be better. The more the mist interacts with obstructions and surfaces the less effective it can be by the time it reaches the blower. I injected right at the blower discharge because the Kenne Bell outlet manifold made it easy to do.

 

[donalds]

I think injecting the water closer to the blower intake would be better. The more the mist interacts with obstructions and surfaces the less effective it can be by the time it reaches the blower. I injected right at the blower discharge because the Kenne Bell outlet manifold made it easy to do.

Are you suggesting a better place to put it
The kit already has a 1/4 npt port where I marked in the pic
You can nearly see it

 

[CDW6212R]

Yeah I also would like to suggest something, but I don't know what better way it could be done. I'm hoping Lasota has better ideas given his tuning experience.

I'd dig into John's 98 blown SOHC thread and see if there's anything there which could apply, regarding the IAT's, or the fuel under boost enrichment,

 

[94Eddie]

Are you suggesting a better place to put it
The kit already has a 1/4 npt port where I marked in the pic
You can nearly see it

I think placing the nozzle anywhere in the intake that is attached directly to the blower is good. The more it sprays the mist directly into the blower intake the better. Placing the nozzle before the throttle body puts a lot of obstruction to the flow path of the mist. The more evenly distributed the mist is before going into the blower the better. When the mist hits a surface it can coagulate into bigger drops.

I think your real conundrum is the issue with the IAT sensor. I would relocate the nozzle and then see what effect is has on the temperature readings. If I am understanding the configuration of your setup then I think it is in an ideal place if reading the temperature of the air coming out of the blower is the goal. I can't tell from the photo but is it located in a depression with a lip around it? Maybe this is not letting it get a good reading? Maybe the water alcohol injection isn't dialed in?If it is then I think you should see around 105-110 degrees when under boost.

 

[Blown]

its not lean he fixed all that now its heat pulling timing im gonna move the iat to the top plenum and add a solenoid to the meth and just a little more water
move the nozzle to a port on the intake
ill post a pic

The iat sensor should be after the blower so it picks-up the heat of the compressed air.

The discharge side of the blower would not be good for meth. It would be fighting the boost pressure and more importantly, allowing more mist into the closest cylinders and some might not get much if any......................

 

[94Eddie]

The iat sensor should be after the blower so it picks-up the heat of the compressed air.

The discharge side of the blower would not be good for meth. It would be fighting the boost pressure and more importantly, allowing more mist into the closest cylinders and some might not get much if any......................

If physically possible it is better to inject downstream from the blower, turbos etc. This is the point where the mist is most effective if the outflow is centralized before going to the lower intake. It flashes to a vapor more effectively and the intake air has less time and opportunity to pick up engine heat. The goal is to cool the intake air as close to where it enters the cylinders as possible. Some of the cooling when injected before the blower goes to cooling the blower which isn't the goal as small amount of water/alcohol being sprayed doesn't do much to cool such a large mass. The typical psi post blower isn't a concern since these pumps can spray at very high pressures. Don's setup doesn't allow post blower injection so injecting before the blower is his only choice. The KB setup I had was ideal for injecting after the blower as was the case for guys running centrifugal superchargers. It also works good for guys running turbos without an intercooler.

To show how effective this can be, one of my Mustang buddies ran a centrifugal on his '99 GT without an intercooler. He injected after the blower and also had a very responsive and accurate temperature sensor downstream of the spray nozzle. He would see IATs below the ambient air temps. The amount below would depend on humidity etc. One summer he was running in a competition at the drag strip and the temperature was over 100 degrees and his sensor was recording IATs in the 95 degree range during runs! His setup was more effective than an intercooler. That day he came out on top and he gave a lot of credit for it to the water injection. By the way, he only ran straight water and no alcohol. He found that he made more hp this way. His theory on this was that gasoline has a greater specific energy than alcohol and dumping nothing but gas into the cylinder had more potential to make power. The addition of water injection cooled IATs enough to run aggressive timing. The combination of the two made running straight water more effective. I don't think this is the case for every build but it worked well for him.

 

[CDW6212R]

That's ideal for a long intake path from the blower to the heads. I'd do that if I had to and the setup allowed it. Most of these truck setups do have very short intake paths, and really tight spaces. I'm hoping to place a large IC right above the lower intake, and manage the plenums above and around it to fit the KB in the space that's left. Wishful thinking yes, and how big is the hood going to be.

 

[donalds]

Changed the setup a little bit
The met will now spray here
I think the bend in the intake is the problem because half the intake was clean as hell

 

[donalds]

And this little guy came today summit ships fast 2days

 

[Blown]

My post on where the meth is injected was specific to this build. I know this build having been there done that and having tuned it. I try to help by keeping my comments specific to the build at hand. That's me, others enjoy the off topic banter. I would prefer to cool the air as it enters the heater/supercharger so it cools the heater/supercharger as well in a daily driven Explorer or Ranger. It makes sense to me when it will go through multiple heat cycles, in and out of boost around town. I never mentioned a Mustang with different intake and racing.

 

[Blown]

And this little guy came today summit ships fast 2days
View attachment 328871

Is that for 100% meth or just a better one?

I like the heat wrap on the intake tube and your overall clean install. I got some motivation from you to get back to and clean-up a couple items on mine.

Does this sound familiar regarding meth injection and still seeing high IAT? "The problem is that meth vaporizes at around 145* and our rotors are hotter than that...So after it goes through the charger it is vaporized and not cool enough to help IAT2's..."

I pulled that off the Lightning forum from a guy who was using 100% meth and obviously injecting before the blower. I used a mixture as water has better cooling properties.

I also did a bit of quick research and found quite a debate for injecting before or after the supercharger. The bottom line is cooling the intake air anyway you can cause we add heat with boost. Meth adds a little octane but we get the biggest octane adder effect from cooling the air charge. I have heard of running strait distilled water. I ran a 50/50 mix. The ultimate cooling is to spray before the blower and after if you can.

 

[94Eddie]

My post on where the meth is injected was specific to this build. I know this build having been there done that and having tuned it. I try to help by keeping my comments specific to the build at hand. That's me, others enjoy the off topic banter. I would prefer to cool the air as it enters the heater/supercharger so it cools the heater/supercharger as well in a daily driven Explorer or Ranger. It makes sense to me when it will go through multiple heat cycles, in and out of boost around town. I never mentioned a Mustang with different intake and racing.

Sometimes the banter will be useful for people reading this thread years later. It gives them information they might want to incorporate into their build, if possible. The air before the blower can't be cooled much because it is probably close the ambient temperature already. To flash the mist to vapor and get the cooling effect from this requires the air to be at a higher temperature. If the goal is having the coolest IATs then injecting after the blower is ideal. Cooling the blower is a futile effort as it is too hot and has too much mass for the mist to have much of an effect on a mild, daily driver build. Whatever small amount it might cool the blower is inconsequential to the operation and/or longevity of the blower. Air temps can still be dropped a good amount spraying before the blower. My guess is Donald should see around 110 degree IATs coming out of the blower. As for mentioning Mustangs, all builds have crossover value to others. My Mustang buddies and I adopted the W/A systems used by the Buick GN guys and got pointers from them for tuning. While the vehicles might be different the physics is still the same.

 

[donalds]

Is that for 100% meth or just a better one?

It will work with 100% but I'm 50/50 now I may up the water if needed

Today's progress

Excuse the Rtv mess it was cleaned up

 

[donalds]

Thanks for all the info
And chat
I enjoy the reading
And learning to

 

[donalds]

Even with the pcm pulling timing it halls ass

 

[94Eddie]

Even with the pcm pulling timing it halls ass

IMO, there is nothing like running a Roots/twin screw blower on a daily driver. All that torque available in a split second at any RPM makes it hard to not have a lead foot. I bet you have seen a severe MPG drop lately.

 

[donalds]

I like the heat wrap on the intake tube and your overall clean install. I got some motivation from you to get back to and clean-up a couple items on mine.

Coming from y'all that's very nice to hear

 

[donalds]

you have seen a severe MPG drop lately.

Maybe just a little
My wife is worth it
She drives it 80miles a day
I mean she puts up with my fat ass
90% of the money I spent on this whole build was from rebuilding small engines
Kohler basically paid it

 

[donalds]

Ya know that intake lid was a pain in the but
I thought I was smart ya know big brain...thought
We used a piece of braided 50 pound fishing line and two wooden dowels