Torque Converter Install Issue

[Jwalhood]

2001 Ford Explorer Sport Trac 4x4 with 4.0L SOHC 4x4
I removed the motor to have it rebuilt and the torque converter came slightly out when removing the motor.
I am now ready to install the motor but when putting the torque converter back in, it doesn’t seem to seat all the way. When I get the torque converter over both sets of splines and spin the TC it makes a clunking noise. It really sounds and feels like the TC and pump gear didn’t get fully engaged with each other.
I checked the input shaft and it is seated all the way in as well. It sticks out a little less than and inch and only the splines are showing.
I am thinking maybe the pump gear got missed align or maybe the stator spline isn’t aligned correctly anymore? But I’m not a transmission guy. Any suggestions from someone who has had this issue would be greatly appreciated.
thanks

 

[410Fortune]

3 clicks
The torque converter will have 3 clicks to be fully seated, the first two are usually pretty easy, the third you might have to lift up slightly on the converter, rotate it and press backwards...it will go
In pic one that converter looks fully seated

So here is how you know for sure, when you stab the engine to the transmission and everything is lined up, when putting on the first converter stud nut the converter should pull forward 3/8". This is with the engine bolted to the transmission bellhousing

So here is a little tip to help you stab your engine back to the transmission
Take the engine mounting plates off the side of the engine block
With engine hanging from hoist you will have a much easier time getting the bellhousing and back of engine to the correct position/angles for stabbing. At this time you rotate your converter so the studs line up with the holes in the flexplate. Now bring engine to the trans and start two BH bolts....as said before with the bellhousing bolted to the engine the converter will pull forward 3/8" no more no less
That is how you know you have correctly stabbed one of these Ford converters/transmissions

With the trans bolted to the engine now you can lift your engine back up a little, install the side plates, and finally drop it down on its mounts.

 

[Jwalhood]

Hey 410Fortune thanks for the reply.

So it does seem like the TC is as far back as it will go. I do get the clunks but when it is that position as shown, I spin the torque converter and it makes a clunk sound as I spin it. I can feel what seems to be the slots of the pump gear and the TC hitting which seems to be the source of the clunk. The TC also will move around a little bit when it being spun like it’s close to getting into the slots but can’t go far enough.
I’ve tried spinning and everything to get it in the right position for about an hour I still wasn’t successful.
I appreciate the helpful hint when putting in the engine!

 

[transman304]

The converter will go back far enough to touch the bell housing. And then come back out after you get the studs through the flexplate.
Brad

 

[Jwalhood]

This is short clip of me installing and then the clunking you can hear as I turn it.
As you mentioned Transman304, is this from pushing on the TC after it has past the 3 clunks? If I don’t push on the TC now, it does not make the clink sound.
Thanks

 

[Jwalhood]

First time installing a TC so I am not familiar. I’ve only gone this deep on manual cars

 

[410Fortune]

did the pump driveshaft ever come out of this transmission? behind the converter?
There is something wrong in that video, something is keeping the converter from seating fully
almost seems like the shaft is in backwards or something internally wrong with that converter

 

[Jwalhood]

Not that I know of. Bought the truck and drove it for 3 weeks before the timing chains went out and spun a bearing. It looks like the motor was pulled before to have the timing chains done before.

I was thinking of removing the bell house and pump while it was still in the vehicle to check it out.

 

[Jwalhood]

The smaller inner shaft (I believe the input shaft) is fully installed. Only the splines stick out a little less than inch.

 

[transman304]

Pull out the converter and take a picture of the front side.

 

[Jwalhood]

Here you go

 

[transman304]

That shaft is in the correct position, I apologize but need a pic of the side of converter that goes in the transmission. Thanks

 

[Jwalhood]

I hope these photos are clear enough.
Thanks

 

[transman304]

The marks I have indicated in the photo are where the fins are hitting the bell housing. You are fine on the install if that is happening. If you are still questioning the install the only way to be sure is to mate it to the motor (be sure to get studs oriented close to the holes in flex plate) get the block and transmission case to marry up start the 2 bolts that go through the dowel pins and snug them up evenly. Then see if you still have to pull forward on the converter to get the studs through. Hard to explain over a keyboard but the converter is installed correctly if you get it back that far as in video.
Brad

 

[Jwalhood]

I could see that being a possibility. I’ll check it out and see if I can confirm the fins are hitting in the back from being pushed too far back

 

[DSteele41]

@DILLARD000
CC'd You to see if you can weigh in

(2 Pics Attached of Stud on Torque Converter just to Fly Wheel)
Note 1: The Pic is of the Same Stud just at Fly Wheel ... Just 2 different Pics at slighly different Camera Angles.... Trying to squeeze Phone to Starter Opening)

Note 2: In Pic 1 it appears the Stud is not coming through but the second pic it show to be very very slightly through FlyWheel...Again that is the same Bolt

I recently replaced Motor and Transmission in my 03 Sport Trac XLT 4WD

Engine In Started Just fine... No Codes ... found out Transmission was also shot.. (Longer Story) but bought a Newly Remaned Tranny

Fast Forward got Old Tranny Pulled and New one Bolted up (Bell Housing....Sensors..Transfer Case... Rear Drive Shaft is bolted up to Transfer Case and Rear Drive)
Note the Front Drive Shaft is not fully installed.... Left Uninstalled to Gain Access to the Torque Converter Bolts through Starter Opening.

Problem:

Can Not get 4 Nuts on Studs Bolted on, coming from Torque Converter and Fly Wheel .

The Studs Seem to be Lined up in the 4 Holes... done while Mating Tranny to Engine Block.

Seems the Stud is Right at the Fly Wheel but not enough Thread showing to get 1st Torque Converter Bolt Started .


Options me and a Buddy are Considering

1.) Removing Front Drive Axle to Remove Front Differential to get better Access to the Starter Opening and being Able to Hopefully Pull Torque Converter Forward and / or Spinning Crank Pully to Rotate to a more Accessible point.

2.) Unbolting Rear Drive shaft... and Tranny Harnesses...etc... to be able to slighly unbolt Tranny Bell Housing to try to push Torque converter Forward towards Engine Block.

You Guys are more than Helpful... So I say Thanks in advance Gratefully.

 

[410Fortune]

Couple of quick questions before moving forward with that install

Is the transmission 100% mated to the engine in those pictures??
Meaning the alignment dowls are all the way flat, the engine and trans are flat to each other up top and at the bottom?

Did the spacer get installed between the engine and the flexplate?
(was the flexplate ever removed from engine)

if the answer is yes and yes then
Try putting your hand under/behind the converter as much as possible through the starter hole and pull the converter forward slightly... then you should be able to thread the first nut on and this will pull the converter through the flexplate

when the engine and trans are fully stabbed to each other the converter should pull forward 3/8"
You have everything aligned perfectly like the picture above then you can go ahead and install a few bellhousing bolts and tighten them down.. The converter should show enough thread to start the first nut...when you do this is when the converter should pull forward a full 3/8"

 

[transman304]

The Pilot is not seating. Maybe got a burr raised on it not allowing the converter to fully seat.

 

[DSteele41]

Couple of quick questions before moving forward with that install

Is the transmission 100% mated to the engine in those pictures??
Meaning the alignment dowls are all the way flat, the engine and trans are flat to each other up top and at the bottom?

Did the spacer get installed between the engine and the flexplate?
(was the flexplate ever removed from engine)

if the answer is yes and yes then
Try putting your hand under/behind the converter as much as possible through the starter hole and pull the converter forward slightly... then you should be able to thread the first nut on and this will pull the converter through the flexplate

when the engine and trans are fully stabbed to each other the converter should pull forward 3/8"
You have everything aligned perfectly like the picture above then you can go ahead and install a few bellhousing bolts and tighten them down.. The converter should show enough thread to start the first nut...when you do this is when the converter should pull forward a full 3/8"

@410Fortune

First Thanks for reply ..

Yes the Transmission is Fully Mated. All Bell Housing Bolts are installed and tightened.... and alignment dowls are all the way flat.

( I will double check the tightening of all bell housing bolts and alignment of dowls)

Yes the Spacer/ looks like a Gasket ? It is in and No the Flexplate was never removed from Engine.

With the Front Differential On... it is very tough to get anything (even a hand) into starter housing

We are Contimplating this: from my original post / reply to this thread above:


1.) Removing Front Drive Axle to Remove Front Differential to get better Access to the Starter Opening and being Able to Hopefully Pull Torque Converter Forward and / or Spinning Crank Pully to Rotate to a more Accessible point.

2.) Unbolting Rear Drive shaft... and Tranny Harnesses...etc... to be able to slighly unbolt Tranny Bell Housing to try to push Torque converter Forward towards Engine Block.


any suggestion on pulling Torque Converter forward 3/8 " ?

 

[DSteele41]

The Pilot is not seating. Maybe got a burr raised on it not allowing the converter to fully seat.

View attachment 324886

@transman304

First Thank You for Reply as well.....

I'm guessing we would have to unbolt bell housing .... rear drive shaft .... Transmission / Transfer Case Brackets and back transmission back out to check for burr on the Pilot ?

any other suggestions / ideas ?