Trying to decide on removing the timing cover

[cerberusaardvark]

So I'm at the point in my rebuild where I can stick the accessories back on and add fluids to be done..... but I purchased a timing chain, to spr9cket, guide and tensioner.

I know removing the crank pulley is the biggest obstacle and I've read about people "bumping the starter" while using a breaker bar on the frame to break the crank bolt loose.

My question is what that means exactly. Can I hook my battery back up, put the breaker bar in place and then turn the key for like a second? Or are people talking about jumping the starter motor somehow?

Also, after u break the bolt loose that way, can u reverse the process to tighten it?

 

[Anime]

Replacing the timing components with the engine still in is tricky, but doable. You'll definitely want to read and re-read the threads with detailed info so you learn the tricks to make it easier.

Bumping the starter means just turning the key ever so lightly - so the starter kicks for a fraction of a second, but the engine DOESN'T start. You might want to even pull the ignition wires/plugs and/or fuel line so there is ZERO chance the engine will start.

Personally I'd say try it with a breaker bar first, in case the bolt comes off with minimal effort. Bumping the starter is an ok trick for some things, like slipping drive belts on, but it's not really a good idea to bump things like bolts - if it's REALLY on there or seized, the breaker bar can break and/or bend, and you can either wind up with a broken starter motor, or worse, a messed up engine compartment around where the breaker bar shattered.

Unless you figure out a way to get your engine to run in reverse, there's no way to make it tighten the bolt. Given how critical that bolt is, I'd say it's worth the time and trouble to "rent" a long 1/2" drive torque wrench - O'Reilly Auto Parts rents one that does 250lb/ft of torque, just put down a deposit and then get your deposit back when you return the tool.

 

[cerberusaardvark]

ah i totally forgot that i could rent an impact gun- hopefully they have electric ones as i dont have a compressor. the main reason i wanted to take it off was to clean the inside, because when i took off the water pump the area behind it was nasty. i dont think my engine was suffering from timing problems and maybe ill just clean that up and hope that theres minimal sludge inside the cover

 

[ifergusson]

I have a Vice-grip chain clamp that I use to hold the pulley in place whenever I remove or install a crankshaft bolt.

 

[Ramblinwilly]

Replacing the timing components with the engine still in is tricky, but doable. You'll definitely want to read and re-read the threads with detailed info so you learn the tricks to make it easier.

Bumping the starter means just turning the key ever so lightly - so the starter kicks for a fraction of a second, but the engine DOESN'T start. You might want to even pull the ignition wires/plugs and/or fuel line so there is ZERO chance the engine will start.

Personally I'd say try it with a breaker bar first, in case the bolt comes off with minimal effort. Bumping the starter is an ok trick for some things, like slipping drive belts on, but it's not really a good idea to bump things like bolts - if it's REALLY on there or seized, the breaker bar can break and/or bend, and you can either wind up with a broken starter motor, or worse, a messed up engine compartment around where the breaker bar shattered.

Unless you figure out a way to get your engine to run in reverse, there's no way to make it tighten the bolt. Given how critical that bolt is, I'd say it's worth the time and trouble to "rent" a long 1/2" drive torque wrench - O'Reilly Auto Parts rents one that does 250lb/ft of torque, just put down a deposit and then get your deposit back when you return the tool.

Ditto. Starter idea has only worked for me once.
1. You probably will not be able to fit the air ratchet without removing the radiator and trans cooler.
2. Not sure where you're at with the rebuild but I would recommend changing the timing chain/tensioner. At the very least, I would pull the cover off to get an idea of the condition of chain and tensioner.
3. TIP: Difficult bolts can come loose easier with a "shock" of the breaker bar AND steady pressure. "Hold" the crank with additional breaker bar or some other tool like a long thick screw driver. Then rap the breaker bar with a hammer. If you use the air ratchet, a couple of short and long bursts usually does the trick.

 

[Anime]

ah i totally forgot that i could rent an impact gun- hopefully they have electric ones as i dont have a compressor. the main reason i wanted to take it off was to clean the inside, because when i took off the water pump the area behind it was nasty. i dont think my engine was suffering from timing problems and maybe ill just clean that up and hope that theres minimal sludge inside the cover

It CAN be worth it to replace the timing components, especially if the originals are past 200,000 or getting there soon. Timing chains stretch, chain tensioners weaken. If you've replaced the worn rockers and pushrods, getting a new, quality (I'd suggest Cloyes) set of timing components will make it run that much better.

Just follow the advice in the other threads, get the green timing cover gasket from the dealer, take your time getting the cover off then removing it so crud doesn't fall into the pan, and remove the radiator and whatever else you need to so you have plenty of room to work in and not damage something, making more work for yourself.

 

[cerberusaardvark]

how do you pad the crank when you use a locking chain strap wrench? i have a rubber strap wrench but the rubber stretches and i cant keep the crank still.

i have a whole set of cloyes timing components.

 

[Anime]

I'm not sure what people use with a chain strap clamp, especially the vise-grip kind, but I'd guess that something like a flat bicycle tube wrapped twice around the crank pulley might provide enough cushion not to mar the individual ridges for the belt ribs, and would also provide enough grip not to slip. I couldn't say it would work for sure without damage, vise-grips usually work by biting into whatever they're holding, so you'd want to make sure it's the friction of the rubber that's holding the pulley, not just how tight the chain is.

Maybe the thing to use would be a gigantic chain strap clamp, or one with dual chains, that would clamp onto either raised edge of the pulley.

I'd guess that the 'correct' way of immoblizing the crankshaft to remove the pulley is to hold the flywheel though, the same thing you'd do if you were removing the flywheel. Generally that's something you'd want the transmission off for, but if you had the fabrication skills and the tools, you could make a flywheel holder that clamped/bolted on where the starter goes.

 

[cerberusaardvark]

good thing i work in a bike shop so i have unlimited access to as many tubes as i can handle. ill try the tube.

so i just talked to my friend who works as an acura mechanic said sometimes they cut the serpentine belt, loop one end around the crank, then they go around the next pulley and tuck the end under the loop so that as they turn the crank, the belt stops it from turning and pulls against itself in the loop.

its hard to put that method into words but i think ill try the chain strap wrench if i can find one big enough and use some bike tubes for padding. however, i hope this would work in reverse to tighten the bolt as i dont have an air impact gun

i decided i really need to get the cover off to clean the inside out at the least because the water ports are covered in rust.