TTB Radius Arms - Superlift Replacements???

[4x4junkie]

$200 axle
$50 coil bucks
$250 shocks and springs
$50 radius arms
$50 radius arm mounts
$100 Draglink
$50 tie rod
$50 misc steel and bolts.

New wheels are needed, (new lug pattern), $160-200 for steel ones
Matching rear axle or adapters to match the rear lug pattern with the front, $100...

It still can go over $1K pretty easily.
You can't really completely exclude the cost of the locker and stuff either if you should happen to already have it in your D35 (yeah I know selling the D35 stuff can offset it somewhat).

But the "Spend 2K on a TTB liftkit or just do a SAS" type comments don't make sense to me. This is comparing bolt-on parts (which often suck anyway) to fabbing of things yourself. Of course anything can be better and cheaper if you fab it yourself.
Many will already have a TTB kit on their truck. Several of it's parts can easily be retained as a foundation to improve the suspension on (this is especially true of kits with extended RAs).
If a good bolt-on SAS kit comes to market (I hear one is on the horizon), I doubt it will be any cheaper than the best TTB kits too (and still won't include the axle and may also lack anything for the rear lift).

I do have a question for you 4x4junkie though. How come you never come out to any of the socal runs that we have? Compared too rrorc or trs i would say here we have the most active group of socal wheelers between any of them. I would like to meet you in person and see how your ttb setup works for you. TDS is coming up or another trip could be done as well. I want to meet the only person in the world that will defend the ttb to the death .

lol I'm not the only pro-TTB guy around. I admit pro-SAS guys do outnumber us though.

Froader did call it to my attention two days before you had your recent Truckhaven run though, but it just wasn't enough time to be ready (yeah I know, I should check in the Events section once in a while, just didn't think of it).
I would love to get out there someday, as I've never been before, looks like an interesting playground type area that's more geared to 4x4s instead of just dirt bikes & ATVs.
TDS doesn't sound appealing to me however (I can't stand it when it's jammed), but I'll certainly let you know if I'm out there when it's not so crowded and we could hook up then (or drop me a PM as well if you're heading out somewhere also)

....I think 4x4junkie may be waiting till this X makes it's debut...
http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=212368

13 pages! Looks interesting just on the 1st page though, I'll have to look through that one

the only problem im having with my TTB lift is the steering. I have the extended pitman arm (2" lower than factory.. not adequate) and though I dont have the bump steer problems i was having before I am having problems. whenever i turn while not moving or even when i park and leave my wheels turned i notice the suspension is flexing and the only thing i can think of that would cause this would be the angle on the tie rods pulling the suspension in? idk.. im at a loss. i thought about different steering set-ups but we're limited on options with the TTB. that why i was kind of curious to the k-link, or crossover conversion you mentioned above. I did some quick searching and all the threads that contain those steering setups are by guys with SAS. I, along with Ted, would like some info on steering setups for lifted TTB's if you guys have any.

(sorry to hijack but this thread has been pretty good in the info department)

Attempting to keep it short (this post is already waayy long)...
Crossover steering (a.k.a Swingset steering) has tierods that closely match the length of the TTB beams (and "cross over" just like the beams do). This setup is most popular on desert trucks built for jumping.

A K-link is like what the Superlift Superrunner kit is (linkage sortof resembles a letter "K").
IMO, I think the K-link is a more robust setup on a 4WD because the tierods can be kept straight whereas a crossover needs bends to clear the diff housing and other brackets (making it weaker). The tradeoff is a slight bit of bumpsteer at the suspension's travel extremes, although correct placement of the centerlink will greatly minimize it (something Superlift failed on).

I used a Superlift kit on my BII, although I did modify it to reposition the centerlink where it belongs, keeping the tierods in phase with the axle beams.

 

[Four0Sport]

thanks for posting pictures of your k-link setup. it was nice to be able to look at the superrunner diagram on superlift page then click back to your picture of how it actually sits on a real truck and helped me understand how it worked. basically it adds an idler arm, a setup im sort of familir with. for $500 thats not too bad of a price i guess since it comes with everything you need, somethin i might look into in the future.

 

[4x4junkie]

No problem. Just be prepared to drop the centerlink down some on it (and beef up the idler arm & it's bracket too). As I already mentioned, out-of-the-box it still leaves a lot to be desired.

 

[90ranajo]

...I forgot to mention like others, I have tried to find the info on the Zimmermann radius arms and only found dead links...

...If any body knows where to find the info and pics, please let me know...:biggthump

Here's the complete wright up on Zimmerman's truck:

Zimmerman D35 TTB

 

[Tbars4]

...Thanks Show...:biggthump

...That looks like it has the update on their RA's...It say's they bent the other ones up and shows the newly built, stronger ones with Heim's...

...It also shows some pics of the Superrunner steering to...I know someone on here rebuilt their Superrunner steering to fix it's flaw's and they also had pic's...:scratch:

 

[4x4junkie]

.

...It also shows some pics of the Superrunner steering to...I know someone on here rebuilt their Superrunner steering to fix it's flaw's and they also had pic's...:scratch:

Like 5 posts up? lol :

...Or maybe you wanted to see the idlerarm :scratch:

 

[Four0Sport]

i just looked at them again and drooled. taking corners in my truck as it is now is a little scary at times.

 

[Tbars4]

...4x4junkie, thanks for the idler arm pic...Within the last year or two I remember someone else on here revamped their superrunner steering also...I just can't remember who..

...I did find some pics of PaulB's swingset...It can also be seem in that build thread link I posted earlier as it is still on his X...
http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1474502&postcount=21

 

[4x4junkie]

CopyKat I know did the same thing on his... Is that who you're thinking maybe? (I think he goes by that name on this board).

 

[4x4junkie]

Wow this post sure just died off...


I hope my above posts didn't come off toward anyone as anti-SAS, that I am not at all. If bigger & bigger tires remain in the works, then the time to do a SAS will always come (I've contemplated doing it a few times myself, wanting to put 38s or bigger on my Ranger someday).

The thing I just can't grab is why it's always so soon that people push it on everyone. AFAIK, the OP is running 35" tires (generally well within the D35's limits) and merely broke the tab off what is one of the weakest radius arms ever to be made for our vehicles. If Tbars is having another (different) issue, then please fill me in.

.

I've put in a good number of miles behind the wheel of SA vehicles. I've helped a buddy do a SAS (on an A-arm truck). I've had plenty of hands-on opportunities to compare how well a SA vehicle does offroad compared to my TTB truck. It's not anywhere near this big radical difference that people keep making it out to be (at least when you have a decent set of springs and steering on your TTB).
After you've upgraded your D35's axle shafts as much as you can (Spicer 760X joints, full-circle retaining clips, etc.) and you're STILL busting them with some regularity (or maybe you just want a really really huge mall-crawler lift), then I can see the need for it. But until that point...
Hopefully that might help better explain where I'm coming from on this.

Anyway, good luck on your arm repair Tbars (and Four0sport on your steering). If you have any questions on my setup, please don't hesitate to ask.

 

[Tbars4]

...I have been busy and it doesn't look like I will be working on the truck for a week or 2...

...After I fix the RA.'s I need to see pics of front shock set ups...This is the next priority, changing probably from dual, to singles, maybe even 2 1/2's...

 

[Starkman]

I've been lurking and reading and I have a few questions for you 4x4junkie and all.

First off I have a 95 Ranger with a Skyjacker Class 2 6" lift on now. It works pretty good but I have a few problems.

I have removed the Skyjacker coils to cycle the travel (bought a set of 6" XJ coils) and noticed the Skyjacker springs don't extend to use all the shock travel. At that extension I also noticed that the extended axle seems to be pushing out on the hub. This only happens when one side is at full bump and the other at full extension. I have a ARB locker in there and had it installed by a shop so I don't know about the c-clip.

Also, the driverside beam is making contact with the drop bracket. It also looks like there is too much caster in the beams. They don't sit in the brackets square at ride height. So I measured the wheelbase to see if there was one beam bent or out of line but it measures exactly the same side to side. Even though I have .4" less wheelbase then factory spec.

Did anyone see these issues or is it something weird in my truck?

 

[Four0Sport]

most of the lifts out there have trouble with the drivers side drop bracket hitting the front diff at full compression.. bumpstops are a must. I was reading some horror stories about holes in diffs caused by the bracket and went out and cycled my suspension and saw how it could happen, so i went out and bought some good quality longer bump stops.

as far as the caster goes.. my explorer beams dont sit 'square' agaisnt the drop brackets either, they drop down as they shoot out to each side, barely. i've had 2 alingments since the lift and both times the vehicle was in spec to within a millionth of a degree. well not literally but it was really close.

i might not sound like an expert at this.. bc im not, but ive been learning! lol

 

[4x4junkie]

I've been lurking and reading and I have a few questions for you 4x4junkie and all.

First off I have a 95 Ranger with a Skyjacker Class 2 6" lift on now. It works pretty good but I have a few problems.

I have removed the Skyjacker coils to cycle the travel (bought a set of 6" XJ coils) and noticed the Skyjacker springs don't extend to use all the shock travel. At that extension I also noticed that the extended axle seems to be pushing out on the hub. This only happens when one side is at full bump and the other at full extension. I have a ARB locker in there and had it installed by a shop so I don't know about the c-clip.

Also, the driverside beam is making contact with the drop bracket. It also looks like there is too much caster in the beams. They don't sit in the brackets square at ride height. So I measured the wheelbase to see if there was one beam bent or out of line but it measures exactly the same side to side. Even though I have .4" less wheelbase then factory spec.

Did anyone see these issues or is it something weird in my truck?

That's odd that your diff is contacting the SJ bracket. That usually only happens with drop plate extensions used on the stock bracket.
You could try shimming the axle forward some by rearranging the radius arm bushings, this may help get the diff away from that bracket and restore that almost half-inch of wheelbase.

Not sure I understand you axle pushing out issue though... The shaft isn't binding inside the beam at all is it? (hitting the radius arm bolts, or inside the beam window)?

 

[Starkman]

Thanks for the responses.

The driverside beam is contacting the drop bracket close to the pivot not at the diff. The beam is twisting (caster, I understand that it will move in that direction) at the pivot at full compression. That is why I thought there may be too much caster because the pivots of the beams don't sit square in the brackets. Shimming the radius arms at the rear would make sense be cause it is hitting in the rear and I have a half inch less wheelbase. Adding shims (washers) in front of the arm bushings should restore the wheelbase and push the beam forward to clear the pivot.

The axle issue happens when I was checking to see what it will take to install XJ springs. I also wanted to measure wheel travel. So I removed both springs and jacked up to full compression the drivers side beam. Then I removed the wheel on the passenger side and put a lug nut back on to keep the lockout hub in place (Grease ends up everywhere) then lowered the beam all the way down. I noticed the hub ****eyed on the disc. I cycled the beam and could see the hub being pushed out be the axle. I could push it back in but it seems like more than gravity making the axle slide down. This only happens at full droop but the reason I ask is if I see this with 10" of travel prerunners are getting 22" of travel this would be a real issue plus I want to get the most travel I can so do I need to do something different?

BTW, I did cut out the window in the beam.

Sorry for the long response...

 

[4x4junkie]

Having extended radius arms, I don't think the beam contacting within the pivot bracket (if that's where you mean) is any issue as long as it's only at the extreme end of travel. It's normal for the beam to twist on that bushing a fair amount (short stock arms would make this much worse).

As for the shaft, being able to push it back in by hand, I don't think there's much to worry about (if it was getting bound up, you wouldn't be able to push it back in, nor would you be able to rotate the shaft by hand). WHere you might have to worry about the shaft possibly bottoming out in the center yoke is with both wheels at full droop (up to about an inch can be trimmed off the splined end of it if needed).



Also, see if this can help at all with your hub and grease issue

Hope that helps

 

[R.J.]

oh man i clicked this thread thinking it would be about radius arms. i think its about steering or something now. im confused. but umm whatever it is, i hope it means tbars is doin somethin sweet with his truck

 

[cybergasm]

damn talk about thread hijacking :

 

[Tbars4]

...I was doing something sweet until it got into re-gearing chat...:

...I don't mind if someone can learn somthing from it...It's up to the Moderator's...

...I am just going to replace with better Stupid lift arms I bought for now...They are like BKennedy's and I can beat on them for a while...

...Oh yea...I was talking about trying to find some coil overs for my set up...If anyone has some ideas, post em up...:biggthump

 

[R.J.]

...Oh yea...I was talking about trying to find some coil overs for my set up...If anyone has some ideas, post em up...:biggthump

sell your kidney, take the money to shop, leave your truck for a year