UNDERCOATING: Salt/Snow Protector? When, Where, Cost?

[Gina]

Hello! I'm getting an Explorer pretty soon (as soon as I can get Dad to shell out the cash) and I just had a couple quick questions about undercoating. I don't think that the truck I buy will have it because I live in Seattle, WA and we don't get much snow and never salt our roads. BUT, I will be driving it out to Michigan for school and I will need to be protected there for sure!! I was just wondering...

Would it be cheaper to Undercoat it here in WA or in MI?

Does it need "drying time" before driving it in snow/salt/rain?

Where would I go to do this?

Thanks! Oh, and if anyone has any REALLY GOOD reasons why I should get a '95+ Explorer rather than a 91-94, let me know! (my Dad is cheap and wants to get an old school, falling-apart one!!!)

 

[aldive]

Be thankful for your Dad. If I were you, I wouldm't complain about any car/trucj he gave you.

Enjoy it....

 

[Rhett]

POR15 is some stuff that is supposed to be really good for undercoating. They have a website, whose address I don't know offhand, but put POR15 or POR-15 in a yahoo box and I am sure you will find it. It's expensive and a time-consuming process to use POR15 but it sounds great. Maybe someone here has actually used it???

There are also a lot of other products out there. I have a can of duplicolor spray-on undercoat for touch-up jobs. Before this winter I will give my truck a good once-over.

As far as 91-94 Explorer or 95+, you can find a 95 or so for a reasonable price, if you are looking at new generation. I won't say which gen I like the looks of better but hey, it should be obvious in my case... and as far as characteristics of the 91-94's vs 95+'s I would say 95+'s have a better ride than 91-94's. Ford changed the whole front-end suspension beginning with 95.

There are a lot of messages here about Por15, undercoating, as well as what to expect with older Explorers. Hit the search button on this website, and type in "High Mileage Explorers"...and don't let all the listed problems there fool you, these trucks can handle the miles. A friend of mine put 210,000 on his 91 Explorer whereupon he had a new engine dropped in it; but the old engine could have gone on further, he just wanted a modified motor (port and polished heads).

 

[tbomb]

well i dont know about undercoating, personally i think its a waste, its gonna wear off and then you gotta redo it and its not like your floor is gonna rot out in 2 weeks if you dont undercoat.

anyway, i used to have a 91 sport, and now i have a 98 sport. i love my 98, but i also loved my 91. 2 reasons i would go with a 2nd gen X:

1) in 91, ford found out what people didnt like and then put into the other years (91 was the first year for the X.)

2) if you get a 97 or newer, you can get a SOHC v6 compared to the OHV engine. OHV = 160 horsepower, SOHC = 205 horsepower, but then again, itll probably be a little more expensive (this is what i love much more about my 98 than my 91, more power.)

whatever you buy, just make sure you get it checked out and all, dont get ripped off. GOOD LUCK! and im sure once you get it we'll see a lot of you around here.

 

[jimbo74]

believe it or not...some of the people on this site like rustoleum...it is a spraypaint that is thicker and resists the elements really well........personally i think the 90-94 explorers are the best!

 

[Stephen]

Be careful and make sure someone apples the undercoating that knows what they're doing. Improperly applied undercoating can ACCELERATE rust.

 

[Ray Lobato]

Hi Gina, and welcome to the site.
I can't tell you which state would give you a better deal on undercoating, but I do suggest you get it. Undercoating will last you many many years, and doesn't come off easyly. I had my local Ford dealer put in on for me, but can't for the life of me remember what the cost of it was. Maybe someone here on the site who lives in the area you are going to be at will be abe to find out for you. Hope this helps. Oh and be sure you thank Dad for the truck, your'e a very lucky girl to have Such a great dad, who is willing to buy you a Explorer, reguardless of the year.
You can check out Kelly Blue Book(for prices) and vehix.com and run the vehicle number to get information about the particular truck you want.
Good luck on your hunt for your Explorer

 

[leenjen]

.

this isnt about undercoating the car but:

i use the cans of rubberized undercoating to deaden sound inside the vehicle by removing all the plastic panels and spraying the back of them. after they dry put them back, and no more rattles or road noise.

 

[PLRBEAR]

Hmmm...let's see, from a Canadian perspective:


GET IT.

Undercoating can preventive the underbody of your truck from rusting to bits. We're lucky that very little salt is used here in Calgary (Western Canada), so undercoating is a choice. When you're out in the east, however, i would strongly suggest getting it done. We use a product here called "Rust Check". It's made in Canada for the bleedin' winters we get over here, and it's sold in stores for the DIY'er.
Most establishments will provide you with a package deal, but i'd say just get what you need. Most companies will give you a warranty, where you'll have to go in once a year for a reapplication. This is the part where they check the vehicle for bits that may have fallen off due to off-roading or the movement of parts. The average cost for undercoating here is about CDN$150, depending on the size of your vehicle.
Also, there are two types of undercoating you can get:

a) Oil based
b) Tar based

Get the tar based.

 

[BExplorer]

Undercoating

I live in eastern Canada, several years ago I had Rust check done once a year (I think it was oil based). It did a great job in repelling rust. I have to do this to my new Ex (and car) this year, I never eard of tar based, the one I use to do was sprayed like the mineral oil treatment. What does tar based look like, is it black colored??? If you have more details I would like to know.

 

[Gina]

< aldive
< Be thankful for your Dad. If I were you, I wouldm't complain <about any car/trucj he gave you.


Sorry if I sounded harsh towards my Dad in that last post, but he's just being annoying in the whole car shopping ordeal. Like, I'd want to look at a nice Grand Cherokee and he'd say "oh no, that's too nice, you can't drive that!" Even though it was the same price and quality of everything else we'd been looking at... He wants me to get a Kia Sportage or Mitz Montero...ahhhh!

But thanks for all the Undercoating info guys! I don't think I'd want to do-it-myself for fear of messing something up. Hopefully I can find a place to do a yearly check/spray thing. $100 bucks or so wouldn't be too bad for that. I'm just paraniod because my boyfriend's old S-10 had the whole floor rust away! Flinstones!!

 

[Ketch]

Not attempting to sell you anything, but do suggest that you look at some data that is available.

On our site, www.autoint.com there is under the "Warranty Products" section some pictures and information regarding "Undercoating" and "Rust Inhibitors". You must click on the "Warranty Products" section on the site. However, you may also learn many documented facts regarding the "clearcoat" systems used by the vehicle manufacturers today, etc if you spend more than a few minutes. This site was built for the Big 3 and their field engineers to use, this in turn required the addition of many other sections, such as the technical articles regarding paint and such under the "Magazine Articles" section, many photos and explainations from PPG ( a major paint supplier to all the manufacturers, etc, in the "Tech Tips Section")

We are the company that produces many products for 8 of the largest vehicle manufacturers in the world, including Ford Motor Company.

We have provided products such as you are discussing to these manufacturers for over 25 years.

It would be of a real benefit to you to read some of the information that is posted on the site.

The use of re-refined motor oil with additional oils for rust protection will work, but may compomise the engineered in rust inhibitors. The use of "tar" or "oil" based products for "undercoating" may compromise the engineered protection that the vehicle manufacturer has installed.

The use of many of these "marketed" products may void your factory anti-corrosion warranties.

Should you chose to consider purchasing of any marketed products, do your self a favor and ask them if the products meet the ASTM standards and can they provide documented proof of such.

This particular area of vehicle protection has been a "snake oil" marketing arena for years.

Read and learn. After all, it is your vehicle, your money, spend a little time to get the most and real bang for your bucks.

 

[PLRBEAR]

Bexplorer: Yeah, the tar based one is indeed black in colour. Rust Check is good. I've got no problems with oil based stuff, just that it's rather new to me and i'm not 100% sure how the thing stays put.

Gina: As annoying as your dad may be in the purchase, it's just the way parents are. As much as you may feel otherwise, parents don't want to spoil their kids too much for fear that they may take things for granted. Parents may also want less attention focused on their kids. Think about it for a second. With all the gun-slinging kids around the place, it might not be a good idea to be driving around in a flashy vehicle. I've got a 95 explorer, and i'm in the university. When i go around campus, there are a lot of people who give me weird looks because i look young (i'm 27 for crying out loud), and people think that i'm a good for nothing, spoilt POS. I bought the 95 explorer with my money. I guess what i'm trying to say is that; these days, it's more prudent to steer away from the possibles and probables.
Finally, i think your dad may feel that, being your first SUV (?), you might want to use something less costly to get used to the SUV feel.
Give your dad a chance. You'll understand where he's coming from when your turn comes.

On a final note about rust:

As crazy as it may sound, do not wash your vehicle during winter. Road salt does not activate until temperatures reach about zero, and the hot water from the washing bays will accelerate that process. Get the undercoating done in Michigan (demand will bring the price down), and let it be until the average temperature is above zero. I got this tip from a personal friend who does all this undercoating stuff as a living. As crummy as your vehicle may look during winter, it pays to wait.

 

[GJarrett]

Originally posted by Stephen
Be careful and make sure someone apples the undercoating that knows what they're doing. Improperly applied undercoating can ACCELERATE rust.

I wish to re-emphasized this post that seems to have gotten ignored.

I have previously been informed by people (who gave me the impression that they knew the business) that if the undercoating/proofing is done incorrectly, and any moisture at all is present while being applied, the undercoating will actually trap the moisture inside with no place to dissipate other than by corroding the surrounding metal. In other words, if it is applied on a non-brandnew vehicle in anything other than a totally dehumidified environment, it will actually help accelerate the process of corrosion it is supposed to prevent.

For that reason I would never consider getting it done on mine right now even if it needed it.

I get the impression that some who have responded to this thread have real, actual experience in this area. Please comment and inform us. I'm not interested in hearing from anyone who has theories or limited experience, but from those who have multiple case experiences on the subject - I'd like to know the real scoop. We can all learn here and this is a perfect chance to learn the truth.

 

[Ketch]

Undercoating-rust inhibitors

We have provided both of these materials to the automotive world since 1980.

The DaimlerChrysler product, Master Shield is made by us for them and has been since 1981. It is constantly tested for preformance and to insure compatibility with new manufacturing processes by DCX.

In very humid/salt areas of the world, both products approved and recommended by manufacturers such as Toyota, Isuzu,Suzuki, Mitsubitshi, etc.


Each year, close to a million vehicles are treated with one of the products.

Rust Inhibitors are not the same as "undercoating".

A quality undercoating should contain some of the wax based inhibitor and not be a pure oil or tar type product. This is due to the nature of oil evaporating as well as collecting dust that will turn into mud, creating a breeding ground for rust.

Additionally the products should be effective without reapplication for a minimum of 7 to 10 years.

Tar based products "shrink" as the petroluem naturally evaporate from the substance and create cracking and pull away from the metal or substrate. This creates "pocketing" which traps moisture and dirt against the surface, IE, creates rust.

A Rust Inhibitor must pass the ASTM test method, as well as the vehicle manufacturers engineering groups testing.

No holes may be drilled in order to apply as this also creates rust opportunities, once you violate the e-coat, you will have an opportunity for rust to start.

The product is a light tan, waxy material that is "fogged" into all inner cavaties of the vehicle. It displaces any moisture and attaches permanetly to the surfaces and stays active for 7 to 10 years minimum, however, the newer formulas are lasting longer than the life of most vehicles.

Correct installation is the key, does no good to just squirt some into the cavaties.

Any product that requires yearly inspections or reapplications are little better than you can do with a can of WD-40.

 

[rickcar]

In my experiences as a bodyman, I personally would stay away from undercoating. At least the tar undercoating. I can't really say yea or nay regarding the "oil" undercoating.
Almost every vehicle I've worked on that has been to Ziebart, Rusty Jones, etc, etc, to be rustproofed all start rusting out around the holes they drilled to apply the undercoating. Open the door, look in the jamb at the plastic plugs......... and lookey there, rust! It's as Ketch said, wherever the e-coat has been broken there's an opportunity for corrosion to start.
And if the tar undercoating has cracked anywhere, moisture will seep in and just sit between the tar and the metal which is a breeding ground for rust. Really the best way to fight against rust is to keep your vehicle clean. In the winter I try to wash my cars once or twice a week. I either pressure spray the underside or will go through an automatic wash that sprays the underside of the car (they call it the rocker blaster).
Just my 2 cents.
Rick

 

[PLRBEAR]

Hey Rickcar. Just wondering then: My friend, who did such things for a living, says that the best thing is not to wash the vehicle in winter. The road salt ,according to him, is activated by the hot water used in washing bays etc. Is this a valid statement?

 

[rickcar]

Well actually, the salt is already activated by the melted ice and snow.
It's hard to believe someone would recommend NOT washing their car in the winter.
I can possibly see his point if the salt is completely dry on the car, but anyone who drives in a snowy climate knows how sloppy and wet the roads are pretty much all winter long.
Hmm........ I guess I just don't see where he is coming from.
Rick

 

[ExplorerEddie]

I was told to was it at least twice a week in the winter and about once every two weeks in summer
I usually just wash it after it rains-I hate waterspots

Isn't it bad to wash your car when its below 30F, I mean like in a automatic was bay?

Maybe it was the car wash guy that told me to wash it alot!!

 

[KEbert]

Rhinoliner and other spray-on bedliners work great. You can buy cans or pints or it at auto parts stores and do it yourself. Once you start to do it it becomes addictive and you end up doing it everywhere! But I would never pay anyone to have it done.