Unexplained Rattle 2014 Limited

[jons901]

Here is my latest research project. This rattle was intermittent all winter, gone for days or weeks at a time, but back pretty regularly now. I'm thinking possibly AC compressor issue of some sort as if I am at idle in a parking lot the AC will be pretty warm. Once I rev a bit, the AC cools right down or when driving it is fine.

But now with the AC off the rattle will appear every now and then, usually disappearing after 5-10 seconds. Also usually only on at start up. When driving I have not noticed it after leaving the driveway. Like if I run into a store and leave the family in the car, it is not there when I come back out.

Any thoughts?



Edit for confirmed solution: worn tensioner pulley and wrong size belt. Pulley was bottoming out against metallic stops.

 

[peterk9]

Could it be a bearing?

Peter

 

[jons901]

Could it be a bearing?

Peter

Compressor bearing, or a bearing in the engine? I thought maybe something in the alternator as well but the sound almost sounds like it is coming from the motor mount. I also checked underneath for some sort of loose heat shield but could not find one either.

 

[Odrapnew]

Possibly the belt tensioner?
I was also thinking a heat shield or a some sort of sheet metal that might be loose.

You could take the belt off and run it for a few minutes to see if it still happens....not too long as it would be running off battery only.

 

[jons901]

Possibly the belt tensioner?
I was also thinking a heat shield or a some sort of sheet metal that might be loose.

You could take the belt off and run it for a few minutes to see if it still happens....not too long as it would be running off battery only.

Good question. I'll check that out tonight!

 

[jons901]

Possibly the belt tensioner?
I was also thinking a heat shield or a some sort of sheet metal that might be loose.

You could take the belt off and run it for a few minutes to see if it still happens....not too long as it would be running off battery only.

You may have the winner... Removed the serpentine belt and it seems there is a bit of lateral play in the tensioner pulley. Also no noise at all with no belt.

New one on the way from Rock Auto. I'll let you know if it goes away. Thanks!!!

Anyone have any idea what the torque spec is on the mounting bolts for this?

 

[ProjectSHO89]

Depends on the engine...

2014 Explorer Workshop Manual

Torque Specifications

Description​	Nm​	lb-ft​	lb-in​
Accessory drive belt tensioner bolts 2.0L GTDI​	25​	18​	—​
Accessory drive belt tensioner bolts 3.5L Ti-VCT, 3.7L Ti-VCT​	11​	—​	97​
Accessory drive belt tensioner bolts 3.5L GTDI​	11​	—​	97​

 

[jons901]

You may have the winner... Removed the serpentine belt and it seems there is a bit of lateral play in the tensioner pulley. Also no noise at all with no belt.

New one on the way from Rock Auto. I'll let you know if it goes away. Thanks!!!

Anyone have any idea what the torque spec is on the mounting bolts for this?

All right... new tensioner installed. Will update after a couple of days to see if it is gone...

 

[daverns]

All right... new tensioner installed. Will update after a couple of days to see if it is gone...

I have the same issue, when I was in for an oil change, I asked them to replace the serpentine belt, the rattling sounds seems to go away for about a day and came back. AC appears to have no issue, next time I will ask them to replace the tensioner. Are you still hearing the same rattling after replacing the tensioner?

 

[jons901]

I have the same issue, when I was in for an oil change, I asked them to replace the serpentine belt, the rattling sounds seems to go away for about a day and came back. AC appears to have no issue, next time I will ask them to replace the tensioner. Are you still hearing the same rattling after replacing the tensioner?

So far no, but it was only ran in the driveway for a bit. I'll update after running errands today.

 

[daverns]

So far no, but it was only ran in the driveway for a bit. I'll update after running errands today.

Thanks for the update... by the way, was replacing it easy? any guidance/tips would help. Thanks in advance.

 

[jons901]

Thanks for the update... by the way, was replacing it easy? any guidance/tips would help. Thanks in advance.

So far no issues and the noise has not returned.

Not that difficult in general, just pretty tight space to work as I have moderately thick hands. I have the 3.5L engine so if you have the 2.0 it may be a bit different. Not sure.

Here is the new one installed and you can clearly see the three mounting bolts (1,2,3). 4 is where you attach a the tool to release tension.

To get the belt off there is an AC bracket right by the pulley so there is very little clearance to release the tension. I tried one of these belt tools but since it is welded in perfect alignment to the handle, there is not enough space to rotate and get enough clearance to remove the belt.

So I had to find a thin 3/8" drive ratchet. It goes in the square hole on the top of the pulley and I had to go with one from Harbor Freight, but I have seen Snapon ones that work as well. My Craftsman was too thick.

To get the pulley off it was just three 8mm bolts. They are only torqued to 11 NM so my small 1/4" drive socket worked well. I could not get a grip on it way down there so I taped an extension on. Since the torque was so low they easily came free.

Once I broke the torque on them I had trouble unscrewing them by hand. Not hard, just tight and the engine was hot. I slid a piece of cardboard between my hand and the engine for insulation then they came right out. I took them out in 3,2,1 order for the picture below.

Now to install the new pulley I looped a piece of coat hanger through the square hole and hung the pulley in place from the hood prop rod. That allowed me to stand in the front of the vehicle and thread in bolt 1 with my left hand. Once that was in, I pulled out the coat hanger and threaded in #2 then #3. Old pulley in the pic below.

Once tightened by hand I used my small torque wrench that I use for my bicycle to torque them down to 11NM.

Installation of the belt was made easier by removing this ground wire plastic retainer from the bracket and rotating it up out of the way. Once I had the belt back on I replaced it back into the bracket.

Good luck if you decide to do it yourself. Not that hard of a job, just make sure you have the belt properly seated in all the grooves before starting it up. Diagram for the 3.5:

 

[daverns]

So far no issues and the noise has not returned.

Not that difficult in general, just pretty tight space to work as I have moderately thick hands. I have the 3.5L engine so if you have the 2.0 it may be a bit different. Not sure.

Here is the new one installed and you can clearly see the three mounting bolts (1,2,3). 4 is where you attach a the tool to release tension.
View attachment 317954

To get the belt off there is an AC bracket right by the pulley so there is very little clearance to release the tension. I tried one of these belt tools but since it is welded in perfect alignment to the handle, there is not enough space to rotate and get enough clearance to remove the belt.

View attachment 317945
View attachment 317946

So I had to find a thin 3/8" drive ratchet. It goes in the square hole on the top of the pulley and I had to go with one from Harbor Freight, but I have seen Snapon ones that work as well. My Craftsman was too thick.

View attachment 317947

To get the pulley off it was just three 8mm bolts. They are only torqued to 11 NM so my small 1/4" drive socket worked well. I could not get a grip on it way down there so I taped an extension on. Since the torque was so low they easily came free.
View attachment 317948

Once I broke the torque on them I had trouble unscrewing them by hand. Not hard, just tight and the engine was hot. I slid a piece of cardboard between my hand and the engine for insulation then they came right out. I took them out in 3,2,1 order for the picture below.

Now to install the new pulley I looped a piece of coat hanger through the square hole and hung the pulley in place from the hood prop rod. That allowed me to stand in the front of the vehicle and thread in bolt 1 with my left hand. Once that was in, I pulled out the coat hanger and threaded in #2 then #3. Old pulley in the pic below.
View attachment 317949

Once tightened by hand I used my small torque wrench that I use for my bicycle to torque them down to 11NM.

View attachment 317950

Installation of the belt was made easier by removing this ground wire plastic retainer from the bracket and rotating it up out of the way. Once I had the belt back on I replaced it back into the bracket.

View attachment 317951

Good luck if you decide to do it yourself. Not that hard of a job, just make sure you have the belt properly seated in all the grooves before starting it up. Diagram for the 3.5:
View attachment 317953

Thank you so much for the detailed information. Does the belt really have to be removed, by looking at the last image (illustration not the actual engine) the tensioner is on top of the belt.

 

[jons901]

Thank you so much for the detailed information. Does the belt really have to be removed, by looking at the last image (illustration not the actual engine) the tensioner is on top of the belt.

Yes because otherwise the assembly is all under tension. As you loosened the 8mm bolts the assembly would twist on itself and spring free when the second bolt is removed, possibly destroying the bolt in the process.

When I say the belt was removed I just released the tension with the socket and slipped it off the alternator. Then when the new pulley was in place I slipped it back on and put the tension back in. That is pretty simple as well:

 

[daverns]

Yes because otherwise the assembly is all under tension. As you loosened the 8mm bolts the assembly would twist on itself and spring free when the second bolt is removed, possibly destroying the bolt in the process.

When I say the belt was removed I just released the tension with the socket and slipped it off the alternator. Then when the new pulley was in place I slipped it back on and put the tension back in. That is pretty simple as well:

Thanks again... I will try this over the week end...

 

[daverns]

Thanks again... I will try this over the week end...

The part arrive early so I installed it today. It was very tight, I have big hands as well. Anyway, it took me about an hour because I dropped the one bolt and it took me forever to find it. In the first 10 minutes after install, I did not hear the rattling, then it came back. The rattling only happens only when AC is on, it appears to be the compressor, but not 100% sure as my AC has no issue. I have extended warranty just in case the AC fails, will wait and see. I am also suspecting the catalytic converter heat shield or the catalytic itself, although it's only 55,000 miles.

Thanks again #Jons901 for the installation steps and tips.

 

[jons901]

The part arrive early so I installed it today. It was very tight, I have big hands as well. Anyway, it took me about an hour because I dropped the one bolt and it took me forever to find it. In the first 10 minutes after install, I did not hear the rattling, then it came back. The rattling only happens only when AC is on, it appears to be the compressor, but not 100% sure as my AC has no issue. I have extended warranty just in case the AC fails, will wait and see. I am also suspecting the catalytic converter heat shield or the catalytic itself, although it's only 55,000 miles.

Thanks again #Jons901 for the installation steps and tips.

Yep, my rattle came back today as well. This weekend will be spent working on PTU fluid change so I'll check shields while I am under the vehicle.

 

[daverns]

Yep, my rattle came back today as well. This weekend will be spent working on PTU fluid change so I'll check shields while I am under the vehicle.

If only the rattle is consistent, it would have been easier to pinpoint.

 

[jons901]

If only the rattle is consistent, it would have been easier to pinpoint.

I started it up after changing out the PTU fluid while still on the jack stands. I've narrowed it down to either the AC compressor or the fly wheel. It is much more noticeable with the ac on so I am pretty sure it is the clutch or compressor itself. My AC works great as long as I am driving so I'll do some research to see how hard it is to change the compressor. If not too difficult I might go that route.

All the heat shields were are rock solid and it really seems to be coming from right there. Unless there is a loose hose bracket or something on the top of the compressor.

 

[daverns]

I started it up after changing out the PTU fluid while still on the jack stands. I've narrowed it down to either the AC compressor or the fly wheel. It is much more noticeable with the ac on so I am pretty sure it is the clutch or compressor itself. My AC works great as long as I am driving so I'll do some research to see how hard it is to change the compressor. If not too difficult I might go that route.

All the heat shields were are rock solid and it really seems to be coming from right there. Unless there is a loose hose bracket or something on the top of the compressor.

That is what I am suspecting too, since I have extended warranty, I will wait for a couple of months and see if the rattling gets louder. Good luck on changing the AC compressor.