Very wierd prob; truck won't start now, HELP!

[Forder]

have you tried to restart it with the remote start? It happened to me once on a 00 f250 and the only way it would restart was with the keyfob after the theft deterrent was activated to reset it

Yeah, I've constantly tried to press the starter button and door lock/unlock button to get a reaction out of it, but it's totally dead.

 

[Tbars4]

..1) No, your battery will not get a full charge while it's sitting there idling....Your lights won't tell you if you have cranking amperage and the lights will work up till the battery is dead..

2)Jumping thru a bad battery will not make your vehicle start...Putting a different known good battery in will...If it still doesn't start, your battery is not the problem...Since you do have a problem, bench testing the battery will will rule out the battery from this equation..

...When they do the other charging test, (crash cart), they run your motor up to 2000 rpm to do this test...IIRC, you need to be running at least 1500 rpm for the charging system to be in the charging state...

...Now if you rule out the battery you will next need to test your cables as it is very common for them to look good but be corroded inside the sheathing...If that all checks out my next thought would be the starter bench test as it or the solenoid may be bad...

...Again, your battery bench test will take the guessing out of the game...

...EDIT: I just read you replaced the Alt...Odds are it may be bad, especially if it's from Autozone...We constantly hear that problem here...

 

[Forder]

..1) No, your battery will not get a full charge while it's sitting there idling....Your lights won't tell you if you have cranking amperage and the lights will work up till the battery is dead..

2)Jumping thru a bad battery will not make your vehicle start...Putting a different known good battery in will...If it still doesn't start, your battery is not the problem...Since you do have a problem, bench testing the battery will will rule out the battery from this equation..

...When they do the other charging test, (crash cart), they run your motor up to 2000 rpm to do this test...IIRC, you need to be running at least 1500 rpm for the charging system to be in the charging state...

...Now if you rule out the battery you will next need to test your cables as it is very common for them to look good but be corroded inside the sheathing...If that all checks out my next thought would be the starter bench test as it or the solenoid may be bad...

...Again, your battery bench test will take the guessing out of the game...

Thanks, tbars. I know it won't get a full, or even decent charge from idling for 5 mins, but my reasoning is; I know the alternator won't put out full power til 1500 RPM but I thought it still put out a bit to charge the battery a tad enough to power my lights, which it doesn't. That's news to me though that my battery doesn't charge until my engine is doing 1500+ RPM. I also know that my lights are not an indicator at all that my battery should have enough amps to turn my starter, the only reason I mentioned them was to let you know that there wasn't anything working electrically whatsoever in the truck and that when I tried to jump it, they all came on fine to show that it seemed it had sufficient power until I tried to crank it. It's gonna be another day til I can bench the battery since it's New Years, so I can't rule it out right now. I just wanted to see if there was anything else I can check/test until I take the battery to the shop. Thanks again!

Happy New Years!

 

[Tbars4]

..Happy New Years to you too...

...I noticed you didn't mention where you got your Alt...

...2 Things I would do first for free and since you have the time...1) find a known good battery and swap it out...2) I would definately get a meter and check the resistence of your cables...

...Again, the lights may have come on when you added jump cables thru a bad battery and again, this procedure will not start your vehicle...

...Until you can provide some more info ...Let us know what you find...:biggthump

 

[Michiganbear]

tbars is pretty close to on target with the alternator not charging until 1500 or so rpm.

actually, they are producing electricity until the rpm drops to below about 500 (at least thats when the voltage regulator in mine shuts it off), however, there is not enough excess juice being produced to recharge the battery at a decent rate (read more than a few amps) until 1500 or so. between idle and 1500 is enough to run the electrical system, and thats about it.

once the higher rpms are reached, the excess energy can effectively recharge the battery at 30+ amps (and can reach as high as 75 or 80, depending on the alt).

 

[Tbars4]

......Even I get lucky sometimes...:

...Thanks for adding that as I was getting tired last night..

 

[Forder]

Now this is funny.. not really, it actually pissed me off. I took the battery out and took it to the nearest Advanced Auto because that's where I got the battery and it's just over the warranty (2 years) but it'l be pro-rated, which amounted to about $10 off a $119 battery, WTF?! So they tested my battery and it's sure enough dead, sweet, at least it's an easy fix. I just now got back, put the battery in my truck, lights come on, yay. It's dark out so I got my keys in my car behind me so I have some light to see under the hood, so instead of taking my keys out and losing my light, I press the start button my my remote starter and I hear the fuel pump come on and then hear a somewhat nasty clank sound like the starter tried to turn, but it's seized or something. The engine didn't crank over at all. THEN the battery is totally dead again and I have NO power whatsoever anymore... just like my last battery! This is a brand new battery! WTF?! What causes a brand new battery to short out/die THAT fast?!

 

[fixxxer]

Have Autozone or another shop test the starter motor and see if it has an internal short draining the battery that quick

 

[Forder]

Have Autozone or another shop test the starter motor and see if it has an internal short draining the battery that quick

How do I do that if I can't move the truck? Is the starter hard to take off?

 

[Tbars4]

...:scratch:...I remember someone saying something about getting the starter tested too...

...I would also pull that alt and have it tested at the same time...Better safe than sorry...

...I would disco that battery right now anyway...I had a similar instance a few years ago and the starter shorted when I turned the key on, backed up the cable and started a fire at the battery...

...The starter if not under warranty is about $165..Here is a how to on removing the starter...http://www.autozone.com/shopping/repairGuide.htm?pageId=0900c1528018eb91

 

[Forder]

...:scratch:...I remember someone saying something about getting the starter tested too...

...I would also pull that alt and have it tested at the same time...Better safe than sorry...

...I would disco that battery right now anyway...I had a similar instance a few years ago and the starter shorted when I turned the key on, backed up the cable and started a fire at the battery...

Hah, yeah I disconnected it right after that and it still is right now. I can take the alty off easy, but I've never messed with the starter, I don't know where it's at or how easy it is to get off.

Edit: Ahh, thanks again, Tbars, you posted right before me.

 

[fixxxer]

here's the testing and removal/installation guide for your starter

94-Explorer-Starter-Testing
The starter is located under the engine, passenger side.

 

[Forder]

here's the testing and removal/installation guide for your starter

94-Explorer-Starter-Testing
The starter is located under the engine, passenger side.

Sweet, thanks, fixxxer. This looks easier to take of than the Alternator. Is it really necessary to raise the front of the truck? I don't have a jack/jackstands and I can fit under the truck fine, heh.

 

[fixxxer]

I think you could get away with not raising it but definitely set the brakes and chock a tire or two

 

[Forder]

Alrighty, this prob is really doing me in now. I drove around for 2 hours trying to find a place that could test my starter today. The Advanced I got my battery from had a starter/alternator tester, but it was busted, so 5 parts places later, I get to another advanced 30 mins away and they tested it for me... worked fine, except the gear kind of stuck out without retracting sometimes, but I've never had that prob with it on the truck, so it's irrelevant to my electrical issue. They tested the battery I just bought and killed and it was putting out 670 CCAs, so it's good too. This is

Next..??

Oh, and I got a ticket for doing a u-turn on a thru-way cuz my GPS told me to go to wrong way and it was 20 miles til I could turn around. I was pissed off and out of patients already due to other reasons too, so I turned into the little median where cops usually stop to turn around and I was almost immediately followed in by... a cop! Yay!

 

[Tbars4]

....."worked fine, except the gear kind of stuck out without retracting sometimes"???

...Did you say that out loud???

...Hmmm, So let's say your starter did hang due to a :scratch: ..I wonder if that would cause the symptom...

 

[Forder]

Well even if it was stuck out into the flywheel gear, that would just cause it to keep the starter engaged while the engine was running, not keep the engine from turning over, right? Plus I don't see how that would kill all electronics on the truck. Is it possible a starter relay or something went bad?

 

[dogfriend]

You have a dead short somewhere. I would start with the + terminal that goes to the battery and check resistance to ground. It should be open circuit ( O.L. or infinite resistance), if not, start working your way down the cable.

 

[Forder]

You have a dead short somewhere. I would start with the + terminal that goes to the battery and check resistance to ground. It should be open circuit ( O.L. or infinite resistance), if not, start working your way down the cable.

I gotta get a voltage meter somewhere then..

 

[Forder]

Yay, I think I figured it out. I guess I didn't play around with the positive batter cable enough before, because today after putting the starter and batter back in, it started right up and ran fine. Then I shut it off and tried to start again, it killed all electronics again. I walk around to the battery and wiggle the positive terminal some while mashing the lock/unlock button and power comes back! So I tried to get some new terminal connectors today, but the shop nearby closes early. After closely inspecting the cable where it goes into the terminal, it's actually pulled out almost 1cm and the wires are bare/corroded. Think that's it, right? Are new terminals easy to put on? How do I crimp it onto the new terminal good once I get'em?