Water pump failure leads to dead engine

[blwnsmoke]

Hi all, I am new here, not sure if this is right place to post! My 2016 Explorer has 67K miles on it right now. One day, there is massage showed saying coolant overtemperature, I took the car to the dealership to check, they told me the coolant leaked out and the water pump has to be replaced, it costs $2,400 to do it($1,900.00 for labor). The dealer service adviser suggested me to ask help from Ford because the car just 7,000 miles out the warranty. So I called Ford, the customer agent told me there is no coverage option on my car right now, the only thing they suggested is to keep receipt, I can claim reimbursement if the Ford initiates a new program which covers my issue. Any suggestions??? Thanks.

Your thread has been merged with the existing water pump thread.

Ask your dealer why they are charging $500 for a $98 water pump as well as ($2,400 - $1,900) as well as $1,900 for 12-14 hours of book time for labor.

Water Pump Assembly - Ford (AT4Z-8501-B) | Auto Nation Ford White Bear La

 

[WEI LEI]

Your thread has been merged with the existing water pump thread.

Ask your dealer why they are charging $500 for a $98 water pump as well as ($2,400 - $1,900) as well as $1,900 for 12-14 hours of book time for labor.

Water Pump Assembly - Ford (AT4Z-8501-B) | Auto Nation Ford White Bear La

Thank you so much for your information, I only know very little about car, everything they charged I don't know if it is reasonable or not, I attached the quote from dealer.

 

[blwnsmoke]

It is to the point where Id start sueing Ford in small claims for these repairs. It is worth the $80 filing fee (at least in my state) so sue them. Id print all 34 pages of this and show the court how big of a problem this is. Worst case, I would be out the $80.. would be interesting to see if Ford caves or if they fly an attorney in (highly unlikely).

Their quote is on the high side.. if you use the link I provided and search all the part numbers (do not enter the FO in the front, you can see the costs you could buy them for. All their larts are higher the MSRP. They are definitely charging you a lot for the parts.

 

[WEI LEI]

Id do that too, so where I can file the claim? Thanks.
The experience is not very pleasant since I have this car. First, battery electrolyte leaking cause the whole cable system replaced, cost $800 fix it. Then a piece of plastic on the right side of front window fallen off when I was driving, and then heard some vibration on the front window near cabin, haven't get chance to fix it, now the water pump is down.

 

[KayGee]

It is to the point where Id start sueing Ford in small claims for these repairs. It is worth the $80 filing fee (at least in my state) so sue them. Id print all 34 pages of this and show the court how big of a problem this is. Worst case, I would be out the $80.. would be interesting to see if Ford caves or if they fly an attorney in (highly unlikely).

Their quote is on the high side.. if you use the link I provided and search all the part numbers (do not enter the FO in the front, you can see the costs you could buy them for. All their larts are higher the MSRP. They are definitely charging you a lot for the parts.

Small claims has it's pros and cons. I wouldn't necessarily use it to go up against a large, multinational corporation, unless I was prepared for the next step. I've been involved in a few cases against automakers over the years. I put up a substantial retainer for my last case against an automaker and my total legal bill ended up close to $20K USD. That case lasted over a year and I ultimately prevailed - my legal bills were covered by the defendant and a legal "insurance" plan I have.

In the cases I've been involved in, an automaker never flew anyone in unless, and until, it was absolutely necessary (typically at the final settlement hearing or just prior to/during trial if they had to appear). They typically have arrangements with, or hire, a local attorney/firm to handle it for them, who will likely immediately defer a small claims case to district or circuit court which forces the filer to make a decision - hire an attorney and spend money to continue, try to go it on their own, or drop it.

As for submitting printouts of a message board in court, here's a brief article.

https://www.schnader.com/files/Publ...ng Internet Postings and Other E-Evidence.pdf

I had one case where the defendant tried to introduce message board commentary and the judge wouldn't allow it without authentication - basically anyone can log onto a website and post anything. If you want to introduce it as evidence, you will probably need to have the author appear and testify, sign a notarized document about it, or prove it was posted by the other party. YMMV - burden of proof is obviously different in a police sting where they are impersonating a minor to solicit pervs...

 

[peterk9]

Id do that too, so where I can file the claim? Thanks.
The experience is not very pleasant since I have this car. First, battery electrolyte leaking cause the whole cable system replaced, cost $800 fix it. Then a piece of plastic on the right side of front window fallen off when I was driving, and then heard some vibration on the front window near cabin, haven't get chance to fix it, now the water pump is down.

Welcome to the Forum.
The plastic you refer to is the 'A' pillar. This was a more common issue with the earlier models. The vibration by the windshield is probably the cowl. There are threads on both issues. As for the water pump leak, did they say where the coolant went? Hopfully it didn't get into the engine/oil. Did they check the oil on the dipstick?

Peter

 

[RhinoQuartz]

Unfortunately at the moment that's the way the cookie crumbles.

I would push the dealership to lower that price because its a 10-14* hour job and labour around 100-120/hr would still be lower.

The water pump also only costs between 30-60 USD.

Im assuming the coolant didn't leak into the engine? If so, that's the silver living here.

Since its out of warranty and Ford haven't yet issued a recall/"customer satisfaction program", best thing to do is as they advice and save the full receipt for possible compensation at a later date.

There is also a lawsuit being filed against Ford because of these water pumps. I think it would certainly be worth your while to at least get in contact with the law firm behind. Make sure to get as detailed notes as possible from the dealership stating what happened (don't mention the lawsuit though or they will probably clam up), probable cause, repair process, etc and have a manager sign it. Make copies of that and any other documentation you receive regarding this issue.

Link to news article about lawsuit - Kessler Topaz Meltzer & Check, LLP Announces A Consumer Class Action Filed Against Ford For Defective Water Pumps

Link to suit on law firm website - Ford Lincoln Water Pump Engine Failure

 

[boominXplorer]

Retail water pump price is like $178. Other places online sell it for half but you get no warranty. When I buy a pump from the dealer it's covered for 2 years and 24k miles parts and labor (Shop installed). Rockauto or anyone else doesn't offer that. I also wouldn't expect the dealership to go much lower on the price of the part.

 

[RhinoQuartz]

Retail water pump price is like $178. Other places online sell it for half but you get no warranty. When I buy a pump from the dealer it's covered for 2 years and 24k miles parts and labor (Shop installed). Rockauto or anyone else doesn't offer that. I also would expect the dealership to go much lower on the price of the part.

That is not something I had considered. However, if you bought a Ford pump for cost (or close to it) and it was replaced by a Ford tech wouldn't that still be covered by Ford warranty or ESP? (obviously not applicable in this case)

 

[boominXplorer]

That is not something I had considered. However, if you bought a Ford pump for cost (or close to it) and it was replaced by a Ford tech wouldn't that still be covered by Ford warranty or ESP? (obviously not applicable in this case)

Customer supplied parts usually carry a tail light warranty. As soon as they see your tail lights your out of luck.

 

[blwnsmoke]

Customer supplied parts usually carry a tail light warranty. As soon as they see your tail lights your out of luck.

If you buy a Ford part from a Ford dealer, it comes with a 2 year warranty period. That is why I kinked autonation above. Buy if for under $100, get a 2 year warranty on it labor is included even if an independent puts it in. All motorcraft parts have a 2 year parts/labor warranty.

 

[Sixonemale]

If you buy a Ford part from a Ford dealer, it comes with a 2 year warranty period. That is why I kinked autonation above. Buy if for under $100, get a 2 year warranty on it labor is included even if an independent puts it in. All motorcraft parts have a 2 year parts/labor warranty.

And if the water pump failed within two years and happen to destroy the engine, do you think Ford would be willing to cover the collateral damage associated with replacing the engine equally if an independent mechanic installed it vs a Ford dealership? I think Ford would have much tougher time covering the cost of a destroyed engine if an independent mechanic installed the water pump and significantly better chance of them covering it if a Ford dealership installed it, if they would cover it at all, which they should.

 

[boominXplorer]

And if the water pump failed within two years and happen to destroy the engine, do you think Ford would be willing to cover the collateral damage associated with replacing the engine equally if an independent mechanic installed it vs a Ford dealership? I think Ford would have much tougher time covering the cost of a destroyed engine if an independent mechanic installed the water pump and significantly better chance of them covering it if a Ford dealership installed it, if they would cover it at all, which they should.

Yes but all documents need to be right. Milage, oil changes, ect. Sure AutoNation Ford might sell the water pump cheaper but if an issue arose it would be much easier to deal with a local dealership. That way I can physically walk in to take care of an issue or drive the vehicle into showroom glass if I don't get treated fairly (not really but I like the option).

 

[blwnsmoke]

And if the water pump failed within two years and happen to destroy the engine, do you think Ford would be willing to cover the collateral damage associated with replacing the engine equally if an independent mechanic installed it vs a Ford dealership? I think Ford would have much tougher time covering the cost of a destroyed engine if an independent mechanic installed the water pump and significantly better chance of them covering it if a Ford dealership installed it, if they would cover it at all, which they should.

If the pump caused the failure, it would be covered.

 

[613GT500]

Dealerships over here will not install a customer supplied part, even if it was bought from Ford.
They won't guarantee anything that is not provided and installed by them,

 

[blwnsmoke]

Dealerships over here will not install a customer supplied part, even if it was bought from Ford.
They won't guarantee anything that is not provided and installed by them,

They dont have to, it is FMC that guarantees it. My dealer will do it but they are better off price matching autonation (which they do here) and make some money on the parts then nothing on them.

I have even gone into the parts dept., bought them on price match, throw them in my back seat, then make a service appt. and have them install them.

 

[613GT500]

They dont have to, it is FMC that guarantees it. My dealer will do it but they are better off price matching autonation (which they do here) and make some money on the parts then nothing on them.

I have even gone into the parts dept., bought them on price match, throw them in my back seat, then make a service appt. and have them install them.

That is where we need a good dealership to go to bat for us, otherwise it becomes very frustrating.

 

[peterk9]

Dealerships over here will not install a customer supplied part, even if it was bought from Ford.
They won't guarantee anything that is not provided and installed by them,

Not entirely true. I just spoke with the Service Manager at my dealership (Dupuis Ford Lincoln) and he said he would gladly install a genuine Ford part if I bought it elsewhere and it would have the full replacement warranty. No issues with that at all. He mentioned that in some cases it may even be better than getting it through their parts department in case they don't have it in stock.

Peter

 

[613GT500]

Not entirely true. I just spoke with the Service Manager at my dealership (Dupuis Ford Lincoln) and he said he would gladly install a genuine Ford part if I bought it elsewhere and it would have the full replacement warranty. No issues with that at all. He mentioned that in some cases it may even be better than getting it through their parts department in case they don't have it in stock.

Peter

As stated earlier, need to find a good dealership,
Try one of the big volume ones in Ottawa and you will get a different responses.

 

[EB4X]

As most of you know Ford and Mazda have been partners over the years to some degree or other.....Ford owned roughly 80% of Mazda several years back ...etc..etc.... so this same horrible designed engine is in the Mazda SUV's (CX9) as well ....not sure of any others...not Mazda guy....
Check these quotes from the following link:
“Mazda service manager confirmed this is not uncommon and confirmed engine will need to be replaced.”

“The worst part of it was, that according to the dealership, they know that there is a flaw with where the water pump is located in the engine, and that because of this the engine was most likely gone as well. In their words, they have replaced many water pumps in these same situations over the years, and only one car didn't need a new engine.”
LINK: Mazda CX9 Water Pump Problems