Water pump failure leads to dead engine

[Odrapnew]

Yeah, CX9 is similar design with internal water pump.
My wife is going on 175K on her CX9 with original water pump. Knock on wood.

 

[EB4X]

The MILLER LAW FIRM listed on next-to-last page of this link is still actively pursuing class action lawsuit - email addresses/contact info listed.
https://www.courthousenews.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/FordPumps.pdf

 

[RhinoQuartz]

The MILLER LAW FIRM listed on next-to-last page of this link is still actively pursuing class action lawsuit - email addresses/contact info listed.
https://www.courthousenews.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/FordPumps.pdf

Their info (as well as a news article announcing the lawsuit) is also available on post #667

 

[WEI LEI]

Unfortunately at the moment that's the way the cookie crumbles.

I would push the dealership to lower that price because its a 10-14* hour job and labour around 100-120/hr would still be lower.

The water pump also only costs between 30-60 USD.

Im assuming the coolant didn't leak into the engine? If so, that's the silver living here.

Since its out of warranty and Ford haven't yet issued a recall/"customer satisfaction program", best thing to do is as they advice and save the full receipt for possible compensation at a later date.

There is also a lawsuit being filed against Ford because of these water pumps. I think it would certainly be worth your while to at least get in contact with the law firm behind. Make sure to get as detailed notes as possible from the dealership stating what happened (don't mention the lawsuit though or they will probably clam up), probable cause, repair process, etc and have a manager sign it. Make copies of that and any other documentation you receive regarding this issue.

Link to news article about lawsuit - Kessler Topaz Meltzer & Check, LLP Announces A Consumer Class Action Filed Against Ford For Defective Water Pumps

Link to suit on law firm website - Ford Lincoln Water Pump Engine Failure

I have talked one of their manager today, he only offer 10% for the labor, he said the cost is set by Ford, I don't believe it. I have done all service since I have the car( I bought as used car), but they apparently do not want offer me help. If I take the car to other place to fix, do I need pay any fee for this dealer, like diagnostic fee? Thanks sharing the info for the lawsuit.

 

[peterk9]

I have talked one of their manager today, he only offer 10% for the labor, he said the cost is set by Ford, I don't believe it. I have done all service since I have the car( I bought as used car), but they apparently do not want offer me help. If I take the car to other place to fix, do I need pay any fee for this dealer, like diagnostic fee? Thanks sharing the info for the lawsuit.

If the dealer did any kind of work like diagnostics to find the problem then more than likely you would get a bill for that. If they do and you decide to go to another place, keep the invoice to show them as they may also want to do the same thing. Just make sure it is a genuine ford replacement part for warranty purposes.

Peter

 

[WEI LEI]

And if the water pump failed within two years and happen to destroy the engine, do you think Ford would be willing to cover the collateral damage associated with replacing the engine equally if an independent mechanic installed it vs a Ford dealership? I think Ford would have much tougher time covering the cost of a destroyed engine if an independent mechanic installed the water pump and significantly better chance of them covering it if a Ford dealership installed it, if they would cover it at all, which they should.

I talked the service manager in the dealership, he said all Ford genuine parts has 2 year warranty, as long as you get them from authorized reseller, but if you done this in the dealer, they will cover the labor too, but the labor may not be covered by the third party.

 

[Sixonemale]

The MILLER LAW FIRM listed on next-to-last page of this link is still actively pursuing class action lawsuit - email addresses/contact info listed.
https://www.courthousenews.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/FordPumps.pdf

As much as I don't want to say this, it appears to be a well written class action complaint that is simple and straight forward. They cover all of the mechanical aspects of the water pump and tell it like it is, unvarnished. I'm not a lawyer and can't comment on legal language such as allegations and counts, but a couple of items I found interesting. They are demanding a jury trial which would seem like it would not bode well for a large corporation and they mentioned a safety risk associated with it which is a requirement of a potential Recall. Under safety risk they did not mention the risk associated with being stranded, perhaps that is a degree or two removed from the imminent safety risk that they claimed could occur after the failure of the water pump.

It certainly makes me wonder what Ford's strategy with this issue has been over the last several years. If very few water pumps fail before 150,000 miles, like some claim in this forum, it would seem that Ford may have been better off by compensating these owners with new water pumps and/or engines. It would be interesting to understand how many replacement engines Ford sells per year, in addition to the amount of related repairs at Ford dealerships which is only subset of all associated repairs related to water pump and engine failures.

Lastly I've read several times that a longitudinal engine would not fit in the fifth generation Explorer design, seriously? One would think that a good group of engineers with the knowledge of this mechanical design flaw, from the perspective of risk to the engine and labor time required for maintenance, would have designed their way out of it, even if included changes to the body or cabin.

I have very little familiarity with class action lawsuits, but if it falls into the category of most mainstream lawsuits, very few go to trial with the vast majority being settled out of court if they have merit, if no merit they are dismissed or thrown out. This one is in the early stages, so whether none of it, some of it or all of it gets traction is anyone's guess.

 

[613GT500]

As much as I don't want to say this, it appears to be a well written class action complaint that is simple and straight forward. They cover all of the essential topics of the water pump and tell it like it is, unvarnished. I'm not a lawyer and can't comment on legal language such as allegations and counts. A couple items I found interesting, they are demanding a jury trial which probably won't bode well for a large corporation and they called it a safety risk which could potentially cause Ford to issue a Recall, depending on how far this lawsuit goes. Under safety risk they did not mention the risk associated with being stranded with a dead engine, perhaps that is a degree or two removed from an imminent safety risk related to accident after the failure of the water pump, etc.

It certainly makes me wonder what Ford's strategy with this issue has been over the last several years. If very few water pumps fail before 150,000 miles, like some claim in this forum, Ford should have been compensating these owners with new water pumps and/or engines. It would be interesting to understand how many replacement engines Ford sells per year, in addition to the amount of related repairs at Ford dealerships which is only subset of all associated repairs related to water pump and engine failures.

Lastly I've read several times that a longitudinal engine would not fit in the fifth generation Explorer design, seriously? A good group of engineers with the knowledge of this mechanical design flaw, from the perspective of risk to the engine and labor time required for maintenance, would have designed their way out of it, even if included changes to the body or cabin.

I have very little familiarity with class action lawsuits, but if it falls into the category of most mainstream lawsuits, very few go to trial with the vast majority being settled out of court.

For some reason the 2020 was a good time to drop in a longitudinal engine

 

[RhinoQuartz]

As much as I don't want to say this, it appears to be a well written class action complaint that is simple and straight forward. They cover all of the essential topics of the water pump and tell it like it is, unvarnished. I'm not a lawyer and can't comment on legal language such as allegations and counts, but a couple of items I found interesting. They are demanding a jury trial which probably won't bode well for a large corporation and they called it a safety risk which could potentially cause Ford to issue a Recall, depending on how far this lawsuit goes and what the ruling is. Under safety risk they did not mention the risk associated with being stranded with a dead engine, perhaps that is a degree or two removed from an imminent safety risk related to a potential accident after the failure of the water pump, etc.

It certainly makes me wonder what Ford's strategy with this issue has been over the last several years. If very few water pumps fail before 150,000 miles, like some claim in this forum, Ford should have been compensating these owners with new water pumps and/or engines. It would be interesting to understand how many replacement engines Ford sells per year, in addition to the amount of related repairs at Ford dealerships which is only subset of all associated repairs related to water pump and engine failures.

Lastly I've read several times that a longitudinal engine would not fit in the fifth generation Explorer design, seriously? One would think that a good group of engineers with the knowledge of this mechanical design flaw, from the perspective of risk to the engine and labor time required for maintenance, would have designed their way out of it, even if included changes to the body or cabin.

I have very little familiarity with class action lawsuits, but if it falls into the category of most mainstream lawsuits, very few go to trial with the vast majority being settled out of court.

I believe the longitudinal engine was due to the fact that the 5th gen is FWD so there wasn't enough space in the engine bay.

For some reason the 2020 was a good time to drop in a longitudinal engine

The 6th gen is RWD, thereby allowing more room.

 

[613GT500]

I believe the longitudinal engine was due to the fact that the 5th gen is FWD so there wasn't enough space in the engine bay.



The 6th gen is RWD, thereby allowing more room.

My point exactly.

 

[RhinoQuartz]

My point exactly.

Oops, sorry.

Subtlety ain't my strong suit

 

[EB4X]

I just want to vent a bit here, not that I own a 5th Gen or other effected Ford....but that like many of you I'm a "buy American" guy ...please don't go into the "well...this is made here and that there etc" from this comment.....my point is as we know Ford is one of the Big 2 (no longer Big 3) ....and not so big anymore.... and for them to sign off on this "accident waiting to happen" water pump location just irks me.. it may not be their nail in the coffin but sure could be close. Of course I'm more irked by the thousands of customers who went with them over imports and are now getting burned / going to get burned. Hopefully Ford engineers are working around the clock to create a replacement bullet proof water pump / bearings etc that would/could make it to 200K....not sure if that's possible but Ford better hope so.
Also,on a side note, as we know these Explorers are used in huge numbers nationwide as Police cruisers.....just think of how quickly the taxpayers costs will add up to pay for pump / and or engine replacements.....

 

[WEI LEI]

If the dealer did any kind of work like diagnostics to find the problem then more than likely you would get a bill for that. If they do and you decide to go to another place, keep the invoice to show them as they may also want to do the same thing. Just make sure it is a genuine ford replacement part for warranty purposes.

Peter

I just made a couple phone calls this afternoon, there is another Ford dealer said it approximately costs $1500 to replace a water pump over there(labor and parts.), most likely I will take the car over there to fix.

 

[bigdude2468]

I believe the longitudinal engine was due to the fact that the 5th gen is FWD so there wasn't enough space in the engine bay.



The 6th gen is RWD, thereby allowing more room.

Will the 2020 with RWD have the pump exposed?

 

[RhinoQuartz]

Will the 2020 with RWD have the pump exposed?

Seeing as there should be more space in the engine bay with the engine mounted longitudinally, I would assume the water pump would be external (ie exposed).

 

[bigdude2468]

Seeing as there should be more space in the engine bay with the engine mounted longitudinally, I would assume the water pump would be external (ie exposed).

Have we ever determined definitively that the water pump in 2020's Expolrer's will be mounted externally? Ford uses the 3.5 liter engine in the F 150 mounted longitudinally, does that have an external water pump? .

If it is external and the PTU problems have been resolved with modifications and a drain plug I might be interested in replacing my 2014. If not then I will look elsewhere.

 

[peterk9]

Have we ever determined definitively that the water pump in 2020's Expolrer's will be mounted externally? Ford uses the 3.5 liter engine in the F 150 mounted longitudinally, does that have an external water pump? .

If it is external and the PTU problems have been resolved with modifications and a drain plug I might be interested in replacing my 2014. If not then I will look elsewhere.

I don't recall reading any confirmation on that here or in the 2020 Explorer threads.

Peter

 

[EB4X]

Ford uses the 3.5 liter engine in the F 150 mounted longitudinally, does that have an external water pump?.

YES

 

[613GT500]

Have we ever determined definitively that the water pump in 2020's Expolrer's will be mounted externally? Ford uses the 3.5 liter engine in the F 150 mounted longitudinally, does that have an external water pump? .

If it is external and the PTU problems have been resolved with modifications and a drain plug I might be interested in replacing my 2014. If not then I will look elsewhere.

All signs leads "yes", as going with a longitudinal engine, they can use a beefier transmission+PTU and keep the traditional external water pump.

 

[blwnsmoke]

The 3.0 is external. They do not have 2 versions of this motor.