Water pump failure leads to dead engine

[Fla_15_XLT]

Good God, the Ex have timing chains so there is no timing belt replacement like you see with the imports. Also someone mention a water pump failure that took out valves. NO, the timing belt fails and in zero clearance engines that takes out the engine, not the water pump. Like I previously mentioned the water pump being driven internally by the timing chain more than likely removes much of the torque, and tension on the water pump bearings / seals.

I've had a water pump bearing failure that took out the timing belt - that engine had the water pump driven by the timing belt. Thankfully, that was a non-interference engine - so the result was inconvenience, with very little collateral damage (towing, followed by replacement of timing belt, water pump, tensioner, pulleys). Had it been an interference engine, it would have resulted in bent valves, and possibly piston and bore damage. In this case, there was an indistinct increase in engine noise that lasted a few days at most, with no noticeable coolant loss. The vehicle was a higher-mileage unit, that had evidence of a previous timing belt change - and apparently, the tech had chosen not to replace the water pump or tensioner/pulleys.

Bottom line for this discussion: good engineering and design plans for component failure, and has resilience that seeks to minimize collateral damage when components fail. Ford did a number of things 'right' here - the 'fail safe' programming on overheat is a case in point. The design of the water pump is a pure packaging compromise - they had a requirement to package an engine in a certain max length and chose bore centers that forced them to smush down accessory length. As a consequence, they made a resilience compromise with an enclosed water pump. I would expect that the most of the engines will have a long-enough life, particularly with correct spec coolant. I would also expect they are going to be relatively more vulnerable to catastrophic failure with age and bad coolant chemistry.

Assuming a supplier cost engineer hasn't already driven $.05 cost reduction by using a lesser material quality seals/o-rings or water pump bearings, and created a ticking time bomb. Sadly, all manufacturers make themselves vulnerable to that sort of risk by relentless cost reduction pressures. And we, as consumers, aid and abet that by focusing on the 'shiny toys' rather than robust and resilient mechanicals.
Personally, I'd gladly trade off the $$$$ in electronic add-ons (e.g. MFT nav or forced satellite radio) for more robust and resilient basic vehicle. I've had a real tough time selling that perspective with my wife.

 

[Miami-Beach]

I'm thinking it maybe a good idea to just replace the pump at 150k miles when it is due for a coolant flush as a preventative maintenance item (if your the type like me that drive vehicles till the wheels fall off, then put them back on and keep driving).

Actually on 99% of my vehicles the water pump all went out on me at around 150K miles..All vehicles were maintained by Ford and coolant was changed out by them every 30K miles.

Most were 4.6 and 5.0 Fords and one was a 1996 4.0 Explorer..I generally keep vehicles for over 200K miles..So far on my 4.6 05 Vic [185K miles] the only major thing so far was the water pump at 155K miles..Thank heaven's it was a easy to change as I was on long trip when this happened.

My entire family only buys Ford vehicles..For the most all they need is plain old regular maintenance to get to 200K miles and beyond.

 

[Wes Hawkins]

Well folks I have to say hi as I am new to this forum. I found it while surfing the internet looking for possible problems and or good things with the Ford Explorer. I am in the market for a new vehicle and have owned vehicles of every domestic brand along with one import, a Honda cr-v, over the past 40 plus years. I've had the usual problems with them all. I currently have an 04 jeep liberty with the 3.7 engine and 124,000 miles its turned out to have a poorly engineered crankcase breathing system causing the engine to sludge up causing a major repair. Anyway after $1600.00 to fix it, parts only my labor, I am looking for a new vehicle. I came on to this forum searching for water pump issues after seeing how it was designed I thought that has potential for problems. I am going to test drive an Explorer next weekend, maybe. After reading this I'm not sure now. I wonder how often this is a problem where they leak into the engine and take out the bearings. However, seems like every brand out there has issues. The new Jeep Cherokee and Grand Cherokee have transmission problems. I've been an ASE certified tech for 30 years now but have worked mostly out of my own shop at home and have been very limited on types of repairs and volumm of repairs. These forums are of extreme help to me.
With all this said, sorry for so long, that water pump seems like a poor design that has the potential for expensive problems. Would anyone else that has read all these posting on this topic still feel comfortable buying a new Explorer?

 

[blwnsmoke]

First, welcome to the forums!! There is a ton of info on here to read up on. Regarding the water pump, you have one person stating that the pump took out their motor. This is not a common failure with this motor. Now I will say that I wish it would have been designed as an external pump just for simplicity of changing but nothing that I am concerned about.

Ford is selling 225-250 explorers a year and the demand keeps growing. To only see a couple people post tells you right there is isn't something one should really worry about. After all, when someone loses a motor, I am pretty conice the they will search the net and post about it just like the OP did. You generally hear about major failures on the net and it isn't happening.

If I recall correctly, I think I have read about 3 motor replacements in all the years the 5th Gen has been out. One was this pump, another was something to do with an oil leak and the turbos I believe and the 3rd I think was a crank or piston issue. Again, many years of reading but I believe those were the 3 causes.

Having a 2011, I have had my fair share of annoying issues because for a 1st year redesign. But ashe ford worked out the kinks, the 13+ MYs have been pretty solid overall. I would have no hesitation getting another. I am debating on a 2018 as it will be the all new redesign again or a 2018 Edge Sport as I don't think I will need the 3rd row anyou longer as my kids grow.

One thing you can do with Shelton above mentions is changing the pump as preventative maintenance.

 

[sheltonfilms]

Well folks I have to say hi as I am new to this forum. I found it while surfing the internet looking for possible problems and or good things with the Ford Explorer. I am in the market for a new vehicle and have owned vehicles of every domestic brand along with one import, a Honda cr-v, over the past 40 plus years. I've had the usual problems with them all. I currently have an 04 jeep liberty with the 3.7 engine and 124,000 miles its turned out to have a poorly engineered crankcase breathing system causing the engine to sludge up causing a major repair. Anyway after $1600.00 to fix it, parts only my labor, I am looking for a new vehicle. I came on to this forum searching for water pump issues after seeing how it was designed I thought that has potential for problems. I am going to test drive an Explorer next weekend, maybe. After reading this I'm not sure now. I wonder how often this is a problem where they leak into the engine and take out the bearings. However, seems like every brand out there has issues. The new Jeep Cherokee and Grand Cherokee have transmission problems. I've been an ASE certified tech for 30 years now but have worked mostly out of my own shop at home and have been very limited on types of repairs and volumm of repairs. These forums are of extreme help to me.
With all this said, sorry for so long, that water pump seems like a poor design that has the potential for expensive problems. Would anyone else that has read all these posting on this topic still feel comfortable buying a new Explorer?

I bought mine after reading this post. The design isn't a bad design for reliability, more of just a pain when having to service it.

The pump has two "oring". When the pump goes it will leak fluid between these two concentric orings. There is a weep hole in the pump that leads to the front of the engine behind the alternator. This should give a fair amount of time to have the vehicle fixed before the coolant enters the oil. It would have to go past both orings.

There was a TSB for some older models for the weep hole having an incomplete casting. This hole had to be drilled out.

Maybe the OP's car suffered from this and he never got the warning signs.

If you are really **** about this issue you could run cooling system pressure tests ever so often and check for leaks and/or send samples of your oil to be analyzed.

The 4 cylinder ecoboost has an external pump that only has 3 bolts.

 

[Wes Hawkins]

I think I am probably being over cautious because of this jeep of mine. I do all of my own work and service my cars at easily twice the recommend intervals and for this jeep to have done what it has is unacceptable. It should never have happened. I'm not sure if I would like a four cylinder in such a heavy vehicle plus I am hearing bad things about direct injection engines with the intake valves getting deposits on them. Its roll of the dice these days.
I expect it could be a viable possibility that if there was a recall sent out on that vehicle that it didn't get to the second owner. I remember when I worked in dealerships, back in the 80's, I would see a lot of cars come in that should have had recalls that didn't and almost all were second owners.
I'll tell ya what, that water pump does not look like a walk in the park to have to change. I think if I do get an explorer its going to be an 80 thousand mile service, like a timing belt.

 

[tlbig10]

My '11 Explorer has been fine since having the engine replaced (other than a little engine hesitation when idling for a few minutes). I do agree it was plum bad luck and not a wide spread issue. I actually bought another Ford last month, and F-150 with the 3.5L Ecoboost. If I were to buy a newer Explorer, I'd definitely go with the Sport edition to have the same 3.5L as the F-150. Oh, also bought the extended warranty. Lesson learned.

 

[peterk9]

Well folks I have to say hi as I am new to this forum. I found it while surfing the internet looking for possible problems and or good things with the Ford Explorer. I am in the market for a new vehicle and have owned vehicles of every domestic brand along with one import, a Honda cr-v, over the past 40 plus years. I've had the usual problems with them all. I currently have an 04 jeep liberty with the 3.7 engine and 124,000 miles its turned out to have a poorly engineered crankcase breathing system causing the engine to sludge up causing a major repair. Anyway after $1600.00 to fix it, parts only my labor, I am looking for a new vehicle. I came on to this forum searching for water pump issues after seeing how it was designed I thought that has potential for problems. I am going to test drive an Explorer next weekend, maybe. After reading this I'm not sure now. I wonder how often this is a problem where they leak into the engine and take out the bearings. However, seems like every brand out there has issues. The new Jeep Cherokee and Grand Cherokee have transmission problems. I've been an ASE certified tech for 30 years now but have worked mostly out of my own shop at home and have been very limited on types of repairs and volumm of repairs. These forums are of extreme help to me.
With all this said, sorry for so long, that water pump seems like a poor design that has the potential for expensive problems. Would anyone else that has read all these posting on this topic still feel comfortable buying a new Explorer?

Welcome to the Forum.:wavey:
I had a 2011 Explorer and plan to get another when my current lease is up.

Peter

 

[Wes Hawkins]

Thanks for all the replies guys its kinda put my mind at ease about that water pump design. We have two young granddaughters so the seven passenger aspect is a factor in this purchase. Like I said I do all of my own service and repairs. My service intervals are usually at least twice the recommended intervals. I think I'm under it more than I'm in it.
Another question I have is the transmission serviceable? Most new cars these day are a sealed system. I like to do my trans service every 30 to 40 thousand mile. In my opinion you can't do them enough.

 

[peterk9]

Thanks for all the replies guys its kinda put my mind at ease about that water pump design. We have two young granddaughters so the seven passenger aspect is a factor in this purchase. Like I said I do all of my own service and repairs. My service intervals are usually at least twice the recommended intervals. I think I'm under it more than I'm in it.
Another question I have is the transmission serviceable? Most new cars these day are a sealed system. I like to do my trans service every 30 to 40 thousand mile. In my opinion you can't do them enough.

Can't comment on the tranny but you may want to have a look at the 2nd middle 'seat' if you plan to carry 7 passengers a lot. It isn't very roomy.

Peter

 

[1995E]

I know a Ford Taurus 2002 is unrelated but my friend's 2002 Ford Taurus smells and the exhaust is shooting out smoke that smells like burning coolant. Does this mean his water pump failed or that he has a head gasket leak? Should he risk the 30 mile drive back home?

Also, my Explorer consistently puts out white smoke despite being warm. Especially with my F-150. Is that normal? I also have a crap ton of oil in my Explorer intake tube because I found out about it after the warranty was over but I don't want to bother replacing the PVC crankcase cover thing since it drives fine.

 

[Wes Hawkins]

1995E
I would say the Taurus is probably a head gasket. Have your friend check the coolant recovery bottle. If its low or if they have to keep adding to it I would say its a head gasket. Especially if there are no external leaks. Check with them to see if they think the car is running a little hotter than it usually does. These new headgaskets, past 10 to 15 years, don't blow like the old one use to. They start pulling coolant in and push it out the tail pipe. Usually you don't see any out the tail pipe because the catalitic converter will burn it up unless it has gotten really bad.
With the Explorer and the 150 if they have the 3.5 with the water pump inside the timing cover, if it is leaking into the crankcase it will start to turn the oil a milkshake brown color. It might start out as a small amount of what just looks like condensation. The key is coolant loss and you might see the vehicle running a little hotter than normal but not overheating. If you have white smoke coming out the tail pipe it could also be normal condensation in the exhaust depending on how much they are driven but usually the exhaust will burn of any moisture after the cat heats up. Hope this gives you some direction.

 

[Wes Hawkins]

Can't comment on the tranny but you may want to have a look at the 2nd middle 'seat' if you plan to carry 7 passengers a lot. It isn't very roomy.

Peter

We wouldn't have seven people all that often. Mostly just our two granddaughters who are still in car seats. It would still provide more room than our 5 passenger Jeep Liberty. Three in the back seat of it are packed in there.

 

[xder345]

Speaking as someone with over 34 years in the insurance business, there is no company that will pay for a mechanical breakdown on a standard auto policy. If there were some type of vandalism, then yes, a policy could pay for that. A simple mechanical breakdown is never covered by an auto insurance policy.

You should look into Geico. They offer Mechanical Breakdown coverage for only a few $ a month, IF you insure the car with them since brand new...I had for my Explorer.

 

[sheltonfilms]

Another question I have is the transmission serviceable? Most new cars these day are a sealed system. I like to do my trans service every 30 to 40 thousand mile. In my opinion you can't do them enough.

The transmission for the 6F50 and 6F55 (V6s) has a dipstick under the airbox.
The filter is between the two halves and isn't serviceable unless you pull the tranny and split the halves.

As for fluid change I would get a liquivac pump (can find them at home depot) and suck the fluid in the pan out. Measure how much you pulled and then refill the same amount. No need to drop the pan since you don't have to change a filter.

http://www.liquivac.com/

 

[Sixonemale]

This is a troubling thread and I do think Ford should have absolutely covered a catastrophic engine failure even if by mileage the vehicle was slightly out of warranty. It's one thing to draw a line in the sand if other components fail that are not major and do not cause major damage, but Ford should have stepped up to the plate to fix this vehicle under warranty, especially knowing the design of the water pump location is somewhat flawed. In addition to the location design flaw of this $85 part, according the maintenance schedule the orange coolant is scheduled to be changed at 100,000 miles and up to 150,000 miles there is no mention of the water pump to be replaced, therefore, the fact the water pump failed at 61,600 miles and ruined the engine is huge issue that Ford should have provided compensation to cover. I am now concerned with what I believe is a poor design and/or location of the water pump driven by the timing chain and also knowing that Ford will not accommodate a customer with minimum slack for a catastrophic failure due to this poor location design.

According to this thread, the dealer cost for replacing the water pump is going to be about $2,300 and if the engine fails it will cost about $7,300, not a great business model for the owner. Again, I go back to Toyota/Lexus, on the cars and trucks that have a timing belt the owner is required to replace the timing belt, water pump, pulley’s etc., every 90,000 miles for about $800 - $1,500 (independent vs dealer) and their engines run for at least 200,000 to 300,000 miles with minimum, if not any problems, genius IMO.

Lastly, one of the reasons I chose the 3.5 liter engine was because I had owned a Ford with a turbo in the past and working on that was not all that easy, in addition to the turbo failing like clockwork. I’m sure Ford has made improvements with their turbo’s, but I’m once bitten, twice shy and will not own another car or truck a turbo again. If I need more power I’ll get a larger engine. I will now more than likely sell my current Explorer just before the 100,000 mile mark.

 

[tino2]

Well ford is not the only one with this problem. Check the mazdas247 website and you will see that the cx-9 with the same engine has the water pump problem. I was i believe the first one to have that problem as my 07 cx-9 has the duratec 35 engine. I was lucky to catch it before it did any damage and had the water pump replaced. I was also fortunate to have an extended warranty. I started that practice after my gm car decided to stop working after only 47k miles and even the dealer couldn't fix it. Anyway long story short this unfortunate incident will lead me to buying either a honda or subaru. Oh and if you think that the water pump is the only thing that will go please check your transfer cases occasionaly for any leaks. We have that problem with the mazdas as this is supposed to be lifetime fluid. They have found a way to service this transfer case since it doesn't have a drain plug. I was thinking about buying an explorer since i had a good experience with my windstar 16 yrs before i got rid of it. Now i am not too sure.

 

[blwnsmoke]

This is a troubling thread and I do think Ford should have absolutely covered a catastrophic engine failure even if by mileage the vehicle was slightly out of warranty. It's one thing to draw a line in the sand if other components fail that are not major and do not cause major damage, but Ford should have stepped up to the plate to fix this vehicle under warranty, especially knowing the design of the water pump location is somewhat flawed. In addition to the location design flaw of this $85 part, according the maintenance schedule the orange coolant is scheduled to be changed at 100,000 miles and up to 150,000 miles there is no mention of the water pump to be replaced, therefore, the fact the water pump failed at 61,600 miles and ruined the engine is huge issue that Ford should have provided compensation to cover. I am now concerned with what I believe is a poor design and/or location of the water pump driven by the timing chain and also knowing that Ford will not accommodate a customer with minimum slack for a catastrophic failure due to this poor location design.

According to this thread, the dealer cost for replacing the water pump is going to be about $2,300 and if the engine fails it will cost about $7,300, not a great business model for the owner. Again, I go back to Toyota/Lexus, on the cars and trucks that have a timing belt the owner is required to replace the timing belt, water pump, pulley’s etc., every 90,000 miles for about $800 - $1,500 (independent vs dealer) and their engines run for at least 200,000 to 300,000 miles with minimum, if not any problems, genius IMO.

Lastly, one of the reasons I chose the 3.5 liter engine was because I had owned a Ford with a turbo in the past and working on that was not all that easy, in addition to the turbo failing like clockwork. I’m sure Ford has made improvements with their turbo’s, but I’m once bitten, twice shy and will not own another car or truck a turbo again. If I need more power I’ll get a larger engine. I will now more than likely sell my current Explorer just before the 100,000 mile mark.

One person in 6 model years with over 1 million 5th gen Explorers built posts they had an engine go because of a failed water pump and that all of a sudden means it is a terrible design flaw?

Sorry but way to exaggerate the issue.

 

[4FordFamily]

Whatever car company you go with..you are going to have issues..hate to break it to you. You see so many issues on the forum because when people do have problems..they come here for help..there are people out there with no issues at all and haven't voiced their opinions becasue they haven't needed the help

X2 you literally will hear from 10 angry customers to 1 happy customer. It's human nature. Look up forums for any type of car with a body style and total sales volume of this 2011+ body style and you'll find they have their own poison. You pick your poison but no one is perfect. I agree (of facts stated are as stated and nothing was omitted) that Ford should do more to help if their sensors failed and caused the complete engine issue as a result.

I've owned many cars that shouldn't have died early. Northstar V8 Cadillac Deville with a cracked head... Bad valves on a lumina with low miles. Bad lifters and tranny issues with 10k miles on a charger... It happens... But I don't buy GM or Chrysler anymore. Ford or nothing.

 

[4FordFamily]

This is the only place on earth I have ever read this comment "The 4.0 engine in my 2005 Explorer was very well designed and durable." I almost fell out of my chair laughing at that one.

I've had five 4.0 engines in explorers and Rangers and they're all fantastic and have been ranging from 100k-230k when I sold them. (1992 Ranger, 1992 X, 1995 X, 2003 X, 2008 X)