Manumatic 4r70w?

seth247 · July 6, 2008

so when I swap in my v8 I'm gonna go with a 4r70w to put the power to the pavement.

I want to turn it into a selectable manual-automatic. I like the paddle shifter kits I've been looking at online but I want to hear about your experiences with them and suggestions. What I'm really looking for is one that I have to upshift but not downshift. So if I take off it will refuse to shift until I say but when I slow down will downshift of its own accord.

What would be just perferct is not a paddle shift kit but one with a traditional h-pattern shifter that just doesn't have a clutch.

Has anyone seen a kit like this cause I haven't.

justin146 · July 7, 2008

You can install a manual valve body and manually shift with a normal automatic shifter. So when you take off, you just pull it back into 1st and shift when you want.

Turdle · July 7, 2008

Why not just control the trans with tuning and leave it in D?

Mine drives normal when cruising, no difference noted. When floored it holds first and second till 5700 RPM's, hitting 6k through the shift.
With the simple xcal2 I can move the shift points around, plus, control the shift pressures.

I really don't understand the need. Unless it is just cool factor.

seth247 · July 8, 2008

cool factor

Exactly.

I've though about a valve body conversion. But it seems even with. Floor shifter it would be akward. And too easy to miss a gear.

410Fortune · July 8, 2008

Hard to miss a gear? just takes practice

The 4r70w is shifted using two shift solenoids inside the trans on the bottom of the valve body.
With these two solenoids a combo is used to shift all 4 gears.
There are 4 shift solenoid wires

sol 1 open, sol 2 closed
sol 1 open, sol 2 open
sol 1 closed, sol 2 open
sol 1 closed, sol 2 closed

I installed a 96 Mustang floor shifter with my 4r70w, all stock parts
I modified the shifter gate so it locks in 1 and 2 (for 4x4ing)
It is ALOT of fun to shift this sucker myself using the floor shifter... 88 BII on 35's with 300+ HP = FUN FUN FUN
Its simple to shift, I am not worried about missing a shift, with the factory parts the action is smooth.
I just hold the trigger in and shift from 1, 2 drive, etc

Check out Bauman engineering, I believe they now offer a paddle shift kit
it can be done with toggle switches.
recently when troubleshooting a wiring issue I had on my BII I considered building a simple controller, allowing me to shift the trans instead of the computer.. it would not be too difficult really, some relays, some switches and some led's

rocket 5979 · July 8, 2008

410Fortune said:
Check out Bauman engineering, I believe they now offer a paddle shift kit
it can be done with toggle switches.

I use the Baumann controller for my Art Carr Extreme 4r70W transmission. There is a manumatic shift mode that you can use with your cruise control buttons if you want. You can also hook up your own paddle shifter controls to that if you want that option as well assuming that the paddle shifter operates off of a single wire variable resistance system like what the Baumann is programmed to read.

seth247 · July 8, 2008

Sweet! I didn't know that about the Two solenoids. It wouldn't be too hard the make my own control circuit to run those combos. I could even use an h pattern shifter from a manual and rig some limit switches to it that would select the correct combo for each gear. Hmm...

How would I stop the computer from shifting while I was in "manual mode" though I wonder?

CDW6212R · July 8, 2008

What has been written is all correct and well said. I would lean towards the system like Baumann has if you don't want error codes with the stock PCM. If you try to manually override the PCM signals, that will work, but with a check engine light. The PCM sends those on/off signals, and verifies that the shifts occurred.

If you control those two wires separately, be ready to accept the light staying on. I learned this by manually disabling 3rd and 4th gear in my 95 Crown Vic. I used one switch and two relays to not allow anything except 1st and 2nd. That gave me a two speed transmission, which is what I wanted. The check engine light came on and it took a long time for it to go out after I stopped using that circuit. Regards,

seth247 · July 8, 2008

well I looked allaround baumann's site and couldn't find a paddle shifter kit. By they do have a trans computer and I imagine it has a manumatic control mode(as most aftermarket trans computers do) I would go for an aftermarket trancomp but there all kinda(really) expensive.

I wonder if I could rig it to were while it was indrive it would shift normaly but then I put it in neutral and could shift manually. Might not thrown a light that way.

Out of curiosity don why did you want a two speed? For wheeling?

CDW6212R · July 8, 2008

That was my last mail vehicle, I don't need 3rd gear between every mail box. I often hold my 99 Explorer in 1st gear just for that even now. James can alter the PCM tuning for me to not allow a gear change until a set speed. My 99 Explorer is likely to be useless to me soon, the USPS has just assigned a USPS postal mail vehicle to my route. They are called an LLV, I call them POS chevy's, with no AC or a radio.

rocket 5979 · July 8, 2008

seth2472006 said:
I wonder if I could rig it to were while it was indrive it would shift normaly but then I put it in neutral and could shift manually. Might not thrown a light that way.

You would have to defeat the manual shifter linkage going into the VB. You would also have to route around the TRS (transmission range sensor) as well. You would still throw codes and it would be more complex.

If I were you I would either spend the money on the Baumann TCS and then do the paddle shifter deal or do the full manual VB and eliminate all auto trans functions in the tune so you can shift it manually without throwing codes.

Either way to get a properly running manually shifted 4R70W transmission is not going to be cheap.

seth247 · July 8, 2008

oh ok. Yeah my mom works for usps. And I know those things are pos's.

But were she lives now they need a jeep to deliver so not all of them have to drive those monkey cages.

Melon · July 8, 2008

I've got a 4R70W in my T-Bird and I can manually shift it or put it in Drive and let it go. My recommendation is - if your going with a 4R70W - the shift kit referred to as the J-Mod (aka Jerry Mod)

My main concern would be having a column shift and try to manual shift that. Are you going to swap over to a floor shifter? If you have the traditional shifter, it would be difficult to miss a gear since your just sliding the gear selector forward to engage each gear. If your out wheelin, I wouldn't see why you'd be shifting quick enough to worry about missing a shift.

My thought with having a manual 4R70W with a traditional H-shift pattern, what would you do when you want it in auto mode?

-Melon

seth247 · July 8, 2008

yes I'll be using a floor shifter. And yeah I was wondering the same thing about what I would do when I wanted it in auto. Maybe use both a column and floor shifter the column would be exaclty as it is, but when I wanted manual I would have to do something to disengage the PCM shift signals and use a (purely electrical)floor shifter to send those signals.

Do you get what I mean? When I put the h shifter into first,second,third,forth it would
send the correct combo signal to the solenoids and that would determine the shifts.

I like the idea of going purley manual and completely eliminating the PCM shift signals. But I want the auto capability when I'm going around the city alot or when I just dont want to deal with it.

But I think I'm shooting for the moon.

am I correct in my recalling that there are reprograming kits that will make the trans hold what ever gear is selected on the shifter but keep the full auto capability?

For ex. If the shifter reads. PRND321 then It would hold 1,2,or3 when they are selected but when you put it in D it shifts normally based on computer signal? I could live with that.

I think I remember a transgo that did this.

Melon · July 9, 2008

I think your shooting for the moon to have both a column and floor shifter. Or atleast one heck of a custom setup.

I'm not going to say Transgo is a good or bad kit - but I personally recommend Lentech. It may cost more, but it's definitely worth it. In the T-Bird community, Lentech is highly recommended. It holds which ever gear you put it in as you manually shift but still works as a normal automatic with put in Drive. But that's for an AOD. I believe Lentech sells valve bodies and whatnot for the 4R70W, but you can do a shift kit - the J-Mod - for much cheaper. The first T-Bird I did the J-Mod on still shifted into 2nd if the RPM's got too high, but it was bone stock. My 94 hasn't though - it's also a bit more modified and has a chip/tune in it as well.

-Melon

seth247 · July 9, 2008

what kind of shifter would I need? I've been looking at b&m, hurst, tci, but they all say "works for aod" but will it work with the 4r70w?

Melon · July 9, 2008

If your going with a floor mounted shifter, why not look for a stock T-Bird/Mustang shifter? Just a thought...

Also, if you do go with the 4R70W swap - the 96+ will automatically shift into 2nd gear even if you have the selector in 1st since it's mechanical. I just found that out for myself

-Melon

MoabB2 · July 9, 2008

Melon said:
Also, if you do go with the 4R70W swap - the 96+ will automatically shift into 2nd gear even if you have the selector in 1st since it's mechanical. I just found that out for myself

-Melon

Is this the case with all 96+ 4R70W's?

410Fortune · July 9, 2008

Is this the case with all 96+ 4R70W's?

As far as I know its the case with all explorer's V6 and V8

I will tell you that when wheeling in low range in 1st gear (my stang shifter locks first gear, it will not just slide forward like it did before) it is VERY rare it would shift into 2 because the rpm's never get that high.
I was really impressed with the 4r70w low 1st gear even with my stock 1354 t case and only 4.10 ring and pinions... its a pretty low crawl gear.

1st holds my truck back easily on steep declines and it is a monster in the mud or snow.
I think you would be very happy with a simple setup like I did. Floor shifter was $65 on ebay, stang pawl was $20 Ford, I cut the shifter gate myself to lock the lever into 1 and 2, wired up the OD button to my computer and dash.. and blamo
1st.............2nd..........D works great even shifting manually

paddle shift = $$$$$$$$$$$ and lots of guys who go there use them for a week and then they are just cool factor. Paddle shift = coolness factor for sure I would love to have a hopped up 4r70w with Bauman controls and paddle shift... heck yes thats performance right there
But then I wouldnt have had $1800 to spend last month when my trans blew up!

seth247 · July 9, 2008

dont want to use the stock mustang shifter cause there fairly ugly.

I like the b&m mega shifter.

Is there any way I could get a shifter with a PRND321 pattern?

All of the ones I've found are PRND21. And those won't be great for a manual valve body conversion.

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