Ordered a Torsen for my D35 today...

[r37ribution]

I went to Torsen's web site and got the phone number under the "contact info" tab. I talked to Rick Barnes. They will know exactly which Torsen you are looking for. I did not have a part number when I called. They have not yet updated their web site.

There phone number is (585) 464-5000 Monday - Friday: 8:00 AM - 5:00 PM EST/EDT

When I get home from work in the morning I'll check the part number on my invoice.

 

[Ranger Rick]

Unfortunately, Torsen has been slow in getting the website shopping cart online. There's been a lot going on lately, and there are only so many people to work on it. But the part is available directly, and if you call (585-464-5000), we'll know what you're asking for. The part number is 975420-0207B for the D35 unit, and yes, it is made specifically for the SLA D35 in the Ranger/Explorer. It will not fit a TTB or rear axle D35.

 

[sonicblue]

Hi Rick,
Am I correct in assuming this is a T2 non-preloaded design rather than a T2R preloaded? I would think it would be non-preloaded for a front application.


Also to anyone, were is a good source for bearings and shims to do the installation? Most places list a D35, but it's the typical Jeep rear application not the unique Ford front application.

Darryl

 

[CDW6212R]

The parts weren't that expensive from Ford, but I forgot how much they were. Try to get part numbers and order them online, cheaper.

 

[Ranger Rick]

Actually, the FX4 Ranger differential is/was the only diff that we've made that was preloaded. It's not typical. The Dana35 Ranger front diff is not a preloaded design. I'm not aware that the front differential bearings are unique or different. I don't recall off hand what they are, but I don't recall having any issues installing the unit in our test truck...

 

[sonicblue]

Thanks for the info Rick. I knew the FX4 LII had the preloaded T2R in the rear, I just didn't know that was the only application for it. That's interesting.

Not a big deal on the bearings, just wondered if anyone had a preferred source. May just get them from the dealer this time like Don mentioned.

Can't wait to get it in!

Darryl

 

[Ranger Rick]

If it were me, I'd buy Timken bearings - they're the industry standard IMHO. AutoZone stocks them. My 4WD Mazda 323's have an appetite for wheel bearings (the stock hub/brake design is less than ideal). I've found that the Timken bearings seem to last longest. I can check at work tomorrow to see which cone/cup the D35 SLA uses if you need. I've got one apart in the garage at the moment.

BTW, the FX4 differential is not a T-2R - just a preloaded T-2.

 

[pdmustgt]

Ain't that a kick in the pants. When I emailed torsen why did they tell me the Ranger FXII Level II rear Torsen diff was exactly the same diff as the T2. Telling me it wasn't preloaded and it's not T2R.

 

[sonicblue]

Rick,
Thanks for the clarification on the FX4 preloaded. Now I see why this is the only one of it's kind since it's a preloaded T2 not a T2R.

If you've got a roller and cone handy to get the number that would great.

One last question, what is the recommended lube? I believe Ford recommends 75-140 synthetic in the rear for the T2. I assume this would be good for the front T2 as well.

Thanks again,
Darryl

 

[Ranger Rick]

It looks like LM501349/LM501314 - same as the 7.5" axle. As far as oil goes, T-2 units don't have a specific requirement. As long as the ring & pinion are happy, the diff will be as well. I would just use a regular 80W90 in it. That Ford 75W140 is $18/quart at the dealer...

pdmustgt - I don't know why you were told that the Ranger FX4 was just a regular T-2. Everyone here knows better. It is a T-2, but with a preload added. Maybe the person that answered your mail mistyped or something. It wasn't me, but I apologize for that.

 

[sonicblue]

Thanks Rick

 

[pdmustgt]

Is there away to change it over like the Ranger diff?

When I was trying to find FX4 Level II diff which is very hard to find. I had heard someone say it was preloaded but not T2R. Thats why I emailed Torsen got the answer I got now I hearing it was wrong

 

[dkchrist]

If it were me, I'd buy Timken bearings - they're the industry standard IMHO. AutoZone stocks them. My 4WD Mazda 323's have an appetite for wheel bearings (the stock hub/brake design is less than ideal). I've found that the Timken bearings seem to last longest. I can check at work tomorrow to see which cone/cup the D35 SLA uses if you need. I've got one apart in the garage at the moment.

BTW, the FX4 differential is not a T-2R - just a preloaded T-2.

Unfortunately, not all timkens are timkens, their needle bearing division has been bought by Koyo. I don't know what all this effects but I think it is just Torrington brand.

 

[Ranger Rick]

Is there away to change it over like the Ranger diff?

When I was trying to find FX4 Level II diff which is very hard to find. I had heard someone say it was preloaded but not T2R. Thats why I emailed Torsen got the answer I got now I hearing it was wrong

You mean add preload to an existing diff? Not easily, not unless it happened to have been designed for it. I'm not sure if you mean this D35 SLA diff, or a T-2 for the 8.8. The D35 can't be preloaded in its current design; there was never any want to do so. As Sonic noted, it's not really a desirable trait for a steering axle.

The aftermarket 8.8 T-2 (which is different from the FX4 unit) could potentially be preloaded - I built several that way some time ago when we were still working with a Class 7 BITD Ranger. But not since. Incidentally, the design for the D35 SLA can be traced back to that race truck program as well. To do it, you'd have to custom make a number of special parts and rework the diff case. It doesn't seem worth the hassle to me.

The FX4 diff didn't have any more preload than a typical Traction-Lok does, and I don't see it as particularly beneficial in practice. We preloaded the design because Ford wanted us to. But if you're trying to climb a grade and one tire looses traction, is the 30 ft-lbs that the preload gives you enough to push a 2-ton truck up the hill? Like I said, it isn't worth hassling over. You get a lot more benefit from higher torque bias ratio, like the T-2R models have, even if you have modulate the brakes some on occasion.

Anyway, the Ranger diff is hard to find because they built so few trucks with the Level II package. I'd guess that over a period of 6 model years, we didn't ship more than 10-15K units.

 

[Ranger Rick]

Unfortunately, not all timkens are timkens, their needle bearing division has been bought by Koyo. I don't know what all this effects but I think it is just Torrington brand.

Koyo Bearing isn't related to Torrington. Koyo makes good bearings, enough so that most of their bearings are OEM products rather than service parts. But I doubt that if Koyo acquired a Timkin division they would retain a competitor's name on the product. Actually, JTEKT Inc (which Torsen is a division of - long story) came about when Koyo merged with Toyoda Machine Works. So, technically, we are tied to Koyo from a corporate standpoint, at least on paper. That said, I still say the best bet for replacement taper roller bearings are Timkin products. Just my $0.02, take it for what its worth.

 

[pdmustgt]

You mean add preload to an existing diff? Not easily, not unless it happened to have been designed for it. I'm not sure if you mean this D35 SLA diff, or a T-2 for the 8.8. The D35 can't be preloaded in its current design; there was never any want to do so. As Sonic noted, it's not really a desirable trait for a steering axle.

The aftermarket 8.8 T-2 (which is different from the FX4 unit) could potentially be preloaded - I built several that way some time ago when we were still working with a Class 7 BITD Ranger. But not since. Incidentally, the design for the D35 SLA can be traced back to that race truck program as well. To do it, you'd have to custom make a number of special parts and rework the diff case. It doesn't seem worth the hassle to me.

The FX4 diff didn't have any more preload than a typical Traction-Lok does, and I don't see it as particularly beneficial in practice. We preloaded the design because Ford wanted us to. But if you're trying to climb a grade and one tire looses traction, is the 30 ft-lbs that the preload gives you enough to push a 2-ton truck up the hill? Like I said, it isn't worth hassling over. You get a lot more benefit from higher torque bias ratio, like the T-2R models have, even if you have modulate the brakes some on occasion.

Anyway, the Ranger diff is hard to find because they built so few trucks with the Level II package. I'd guess that over a period of 6 model years, we didn't ship more than 10-15K units.

Yes the existing diff in the rear it's only year old. I had to wait abit for them to get them from Torsen. I already have gear type limited slip in the front a Quaife. Didn't really want to spend more on another diff. If I got T2R it may end up in the Mustang even thou the T2 in it now works great.

I ran across so many junk yards claiming they had a level II Ranger with the rear tag code I wanted. But when the cover was pulled it was just a Trac-loc. They kepted saying thats the rear I was looking for when it's not. They had no clue what a Torsen diff was. After wasting gas and time thats how I ended up with 31 spline T2 new.

 

[Scott B.]

Rick,

A question for you for clarification -

In 2000, I put a Torsen in a 31-spline 8.8 (from an Explorer) when I swapped that rear end under my Ranger.

In 2006, I bought an FX4 Level II Ranger (with the 31-spline 8.8) with the factory installed Torsen.

Are these two units the same?

Are they designated T-2?

Thanks.

 

[Ranger Rick]

Scott - the short answer is no, they're not. Similar, but not the same, and no parts interchange except the bolts that hold them together. They are both Type-2 (T-2) designs, which is what Torsen calls their parallel-axis gear models. Any differential that we make for a c-clip type axle would be of this sort.

The unit you installed in 2000 was designed in the mid-90s and has been sold ever since as an aftermarket product. This is what Ford sells in the FRPP catalog, as well as the basis for the T-2R models for the 8.8" axle. In 2000, Ford Truck approached us with regards to program that they were calling "Genuine 4x4 Ranger". They'd already tried out the aftermarket model that we selling in one of their development trucks, and wanted us to further develop it for production intent. They also wanted us to add preload to the design. In order to meet their validation requirements and produce something that was mass-production suitable, we started with a clean sheet and developed and brand-new model. That was what eventually went into the 2002 FX4 and subsequent FX4 L2 trucks.

All that said, however, they two models are interchangeable in nearly any 31T 8.8 axle. The only exception that I'm aware of is that the Ranger unit doesn't have quite enough c-clip clearance to put into an S197 Mustang. Well, actually, you can just squeak the c-clips in, but they're near impossible to remove again. Best to use the older aftermarket design for those...

 

[unclemeat]

Very intersting reading. I have an 04 Level II.

 

[Scott B.]

Scott - the short answer is no, they're not. Similar, but not the same, and no parts interchange except the bolts that hold them together. They are both Type-2 (T-2) designs, which is what Torsen calls their parallel-axis gear models. Any differential that we make for a c-clip type axle would be of this sort.

The unit you installed in 2000 was designed in the mid-90s and has been sold ever since as an aftermarket product. This is what Ford sells in the FRPP catalog, as well as the basis for the T-2R models for the 8.8" axle. In 2000, Ford Truck approached us with regards to program that they were calling "Genuine 4x4 Ranger". They'd already tried out the aftermarket model that we selling in one of their development trucks, and wanted us to further develop it for production intent. They also wanted us to add preload to the design. In order to meet their validation requirements and produce something that was mass-production suitable, we started with a clean sheet and developed and brand-new model. That was what eventually went into the 2002 FX4 and subsequent FX4 L2 trucks.

All that said, however, they two models are interchangeable in nearly any 31T 8.8 axle. The only exception that I'm aware of is that the Ranger unit doesn't have quite enough c-clip clearance to put into an S197 Mustang. Well, actually, you can just squeak the c-clips in, but they're near impossible to remove again. Best to use the older aftermarket design for those...

Thanks, Rick.

One more question:

Are the two models equal in traction-aiding ability? In other words, in the same traction-limited situation (tire slippage) will they behave (transfer power to the other wheel) the same?