Front rotors TURNED BLUE!? | Ford Explorer Forums - Serious Explorations

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Front rotors TURNED BLUE!?

mountaineerbeast

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City, State
Socorro, NM
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97 Mountaineer
This happened after about 4 miles of off and on braking (not constant because that would be stupid) going down a mountain. Isn't this really bad for the rotors? Is it bad enough that i should consider buying new ones? Or drilled rotors because i plan on driving up more mountains and i don't want to lose that brakes!:(
 



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Overheated. Now... what brand where they? Where they ever "turned"?

The parts store sells rotors anywhere from pig iron (cheapest ones, China) to better steel ones.
Of course if you do lots of breaking you might consider slotted/drilled ones. Or upgrading to a bigger size caliper bracket, rotors.
 






Also you may wanna try to use the engine to slow you down.:thumbsup:
 






Yes. Put that thing in a lower gear!

I was in the mountians a couple weeks ago and i saw a lady in a camry with florida plates ride her brakes all the way down a 4 mile mountain road. I pulled up next to her at a stop light at the bottom of the mountain and all four rotors were smoking and man you could smell it lol. I rolled down my windows and told her to pull over and let her brakes cool and she looked at me like i was crazy.
 






Yes. Put that thing in a lower gear!

You know, not everybody has manual transmissions... If you didn't know, automatics will NOT brake in lower gear like the manuals - they just spin backwards the TC (and that makes only 10% of the braking that engine can do).
 






they just spin backwards the TC (and that makes only 10% of the braking that engine can do).
The torque converter can't spin backwards ;). It can slow down or speed up, but it always rotates in one direction.
 






Well, the output shaft will spin faster than usuall and will spin the turbine inside TC faster than the propeller. Oil will drag backwards but, since the shape of the stator and impeller is made for forward motion, will not create enough drag to couple with the input shaft from engine. Some transmissions will keep the TC locked for engine brake, but that is like engine braking in the highest gear with manuals.

That's why I said maybe a 10%... of what the engine can "brake". My point was that "downshifting" doesn't help the Automatics. Only GOOD brakes and rotors.

LE: Yes, the movement of the mechanical parts will be in the same direction. Transmission oil will be overheated in an Automatic and auxiliary radiator will have to work that heat out. In a Manual, air in cylinders gets heated (by compression pumping) and expelled (with that heat).
 






You know, not everybody has manual transmissions... If you didn't know, automatics will NOT brake in lower gear like the manuals - they just spin backwards the TC (and that makes only 10% of the braking that engine can do).

You know, if you use a lower gear in an automatic it will surely help slow down the car and reduce the strain on your brakes. But what do i know, i guess im just an idiot. It must be my imagination the thousands of miles i have driven in the mountains in my automatic and drop into second and the car slows down to a safe speed.
 






Try that second gear with a manual (at same speeds) and you will see what I mean by 10% braking effect. With an automatic, you are just overheating pointlessly the transmission oil for little returns in the heating of the pads.
But is better to repair a transmission than the brake pads and rotor I guess?
 






Try that second gear with a manual (at same speeds) and you will see what I mean. With an automatic, you are just overheating pointlessly the transmission oil.
Thats not true. Downshift the automatic to one lower gear and the OD off and it will slow down the vehicle. Yes its not as strong as a manual transmission (which should be obvious since the torque converter will come out of lock) but it will slow down the vehicle on mountain passes and will probably allow the driver to press on the brakes less often. Also, there are kits and methods of locking the torque converter electronically (by grounding a wire?) to help with descends. I did this with my old van equipped with the 4R100 and the wiring took less than a few minutes.
 






He is talking about second gear, not third. And yes, some HEAVY DUTY automatics do that third downshifting and locking automatically.
But our REGULAR transmissios will overheat the oil and internals by that downshifting. Remember, the internal oil pump will NOT circulate the oil fast enough to disipate all that heat in the radiator because the engine rpm's will not match the output shaft. Oill will be spinned "backwards" from normal circulation. You will overheat the transmission if you switch it in SECOND gear while going downhill at high speeds.
In OD the oil pumping is way weaker, the heating is not so much and can be managed by the oil pump being driven at the same rpm's.

Personally, I prefer to change brake components than transmission components. But everybody does what he thinks is best I guess...
 






Oill will be spinned "backwards" from normal circulation.
Transmission fluid does not flow backwards.


Personally, I prefer to change brake components than transmission components. But everybody does what he thinks is best I guess...
It isnt always brakes vs transmission. On long grades, sometimes it becomes life and vehicle vs brakes.
 






Blue Rotors.....

Anyway, just to get back to the original subject, if the rotors got cooked you might want to check out the grease in the wheel bearings. Maybe the heat fried the grease too. Just a thought...
 






If the rotors have bluing, the brakes way overheated. However, if the rotors do not vibrate and the pads still feel like they slow the vehicle down normally, you got lucky. No need to change them but they may completly fade out next time you put that much heat into them. In all likelyhood you glazed the pads and may have caused one or more to crack or delaminate. If so, they will not work nearly as effectivly as they used to.

As for cross drilled rotors, the theory sounds good but in reality they have several disadvantages. Yes I use some on a couple race cars. These are not what you get for a street/stock fitment application. Replacement rotors, even from reputable manufacturers, that are crossdrilled are notorious for cracking and the resulting catostophic failure. With exception of one Porsche, none of my street driven cars use drilled rotors. I do use slotted discs even on my Explorer.

By the way, most rotors are some formulation of Iron. A few, such as on some exotic street cars, are carbon fiber. Very few automotive applications have ever used steel. It warps when heated unevenly, has lower mass for size and is a poor heat sink, and it doesn't disipate heat well. I have also never measured significant heat generation in the ATF during engine breaking with an automatic transmission. I measure at the internal factory sensor, output hard line, between all three coolers and on the metal return line. I agree there may be some heat generated as the torque converter is slipping a small amount, but this is minor compared to the slip it sees under heavy load while accelerating.
 






Personally, I prefer to change brake components than transmission components. But everybody does what he thinks is best I guess...

I have probably done 10k miles of mountain driving by dropping second to slow down and my 310k mile tranny is flawless (BTW i have the same transmission you do). Never had a hint of over heating anything. Yes it does not slow down as much as a manual but that is not the point, your brakes need all the help they can get. You CAN NOT really on brakes only when descending long steep roads. But i guess you're right, its better to replace your pads, rotors, bearings after each mountain:thumbsup:
 






I didn't needed them changed every time when I drove thru Allegheny Mountains in Virginia. Maybe because I don't use crappy pads?
Oh well...
My next purchase will be some nicer rotors, of course with proper pads then :D
 






What we've got here is... failure to communicate. Some men you just can't reach.
 






What we've got here is... failure to communicate. Some men you just can't reach

Im sorry im just in bad mood today lol:hammer:
 






Ok finally; there rotors were not broke ass brand. I got name brand raybestos rotors from jcwhitney and raybestos pads from rock auto. I did shift down into 1st gear after that seriously steep 4 miles and it was fine after that. However, both wheel hubs now whine instead of just FR. I checked both for play by jacking the truck up and they was absolutely no wiggle.
 



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Ok finally; there rotors were not broke ass brand. I got name brand raybestos rotors from jcwhitney and raybestos pads from rock auto. I did shift down into 1st gear after that seriously steep 4 miles and it was fine after that. However, both wheel hubs now whine instead of just FR. I checked both for play by jacking the truck up and they was absolutely no wiggle.
As Kamaaina suggested, the grease in the bearing assembly probably deteriorated due to excessive heat.
 






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