5.4L DOHC with a 4r100 in a 2nd gen? I'm going to try it........ | Page 2 | Ford Explorer Forums - Serious Explorations

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5.4L DOHC with a 4r100 in a 2nd gen? I'm going to try it........

wider?

The Navigator is considerably larger than the 2nd Gen Explorer but the instrument clusters may not be too much different in size. Getting the entire Navigator dash with instrument cluster may give you more options to make things fit.
 



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I would imagine that the trans tunnel will need to be cut for the 4r100 ,
 






I would imagine that the trans tunnel will need to be cut for the 4r100 ,

It will depend on if and how much body lift I will have to do. If is do a 2" body lift it should clear. I would honestly rather re-do the floor sheet metal than do a body lift. Then if I end up doing a body lift I might as well make the a/c box fit.

Its all about how low I can get the motor to sit. The more I think about it I want to run a Boss 302 intake so I can keep the alt up top but that raises by intake height about 6". Lots of factors will come into play once the motor is between the frame rails. I do have 2 part out 2nd gens now. I might try test fitting it in there before I tear apart a completely good truck.
 






Here is comparison pics. 5.4 DOHC - 4.6 SOHC - 4.0 SOHC

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I really want to see how this turns out/works.
 


















SUbscribin'
 






Suscribed!
 






There's a reason for why you don't find many people swapping the 5.4 into Mustangs and other project vehicles. Reason: they're not great motors. The Coyote 5.0L is very popular right now, however.

I'm in the middle of 5.4 SOHC swapping my 2000 Mustang GT and have the parts to swap a 5.4 DOHC into my 98 F-150. The 2000 Cobra R also had a 5.4 DOHC from the factory. It's not a big deal if you take your time and do your research.

I respectfully disagree as far as them not being good engines, I have almost 240k miles on my 5.4 in my 98 F-150 and it's had nothing but oil changes every 4-5k miles with standard crap oil at the quick change places. It also has the 4R100 which is also original with 240k and was half ass maintained. My buddies 97 5.4 truck ran 257k before spinning a bearing (he beat the crap out of it). Look up F-150's of that year range, they're almost all over 200k miles. Not to mention that 5.4 is an absolute torque monster with the longest stroke of any Ford engine ever built. Even the 4.6. Look at the 03/04 Terminator Cobra, those things will take 6-700 hp on a stock bottom end.

The reason you don't see them as often is no one talks about them anymore since the new 5.0 came out. Believe me tons of guys are still using them to swap into all sorts of projects. Hell they're in yards now dirt cheap and no engine has a 20+ year run if it was junk. Used in Taxi's, Police cars, fleet super duty pickups etc. with 3-400k miles.


Yeah, the Coyote motors are undoubtedly rather expensive. From what I've heard about the Triton motors however, was that they're difficult and complicated to repair. Numerous timing chain issues (due to the length of the chain) and various initial design issues. Not that any engine is perfect and I do know several people with the 5.4 Triton that have done 200,000+ miles on them, but it wouldn't have been my 1st pick of a retrofit engine. The stock EEC-V should be able to run the engine just fine, though... not really an option with many of the newer engines.

I have no idea why people think these are complicated engines. If you can put together a 302, the mod engines are a cake walk. You don't even have to adjust valve lash! haha Timing chains are fine. I never ever did one on my 98 150 at 240k (probably should have but whatever point is I never did). Still on the original set and running strong daily. Timing chains become an issue when you get into serious power and that's probably what you read about. I'm talking power you can't even put down on the street. When/if you get to that point you get a gear drive setup. MMR has a 3000 HP modular powered drag car. These engines have serious potential. Granted on high power boosted DOHC's you may want to flip the tensioner setup to be sure each bank runs even timing, but just degree the engine and it's going to be fine.

Not trying to argue or anything but just curious, what internal design issues do you think these engines have?


Coyote same as early dohc? If you ignore the cams, port design, coolant passage design, oil return, block internals, intake and exhaust manifolds, etc sure it's the same. The only things they really share are the fact that it's a dohc 32v v8 built by ford and some mounting boss locations.

Boomin is correct. They're in the same engine family and are similar. There were some changes obviously as technology progressed but they are probably more similar than you think. The 5.0 is the same block design even IIRC.
 






No new updates yet, just gathering parts still. This is a busy time of the year for my shop and I have twin girls due in 2 weeks so it's on the back burner till probably April-May. I already have the truck, engine, trans, tcase, axles and a ton of dom tubing, just working on finding that thing called time.....
 






Ha, don't I know it! Twins! Congrats, should be good times.

Regarding the 5.4, I just don't see it in my circles as an engine consideration in any retrofit applications. My circles consist of hardcore four wheelers and Ford musclecar performance, often turbocharged or supercharged. I'm not sure why it's not popular, but the DOHC 4.6 is more commonly found in Mustang engine bays than a 5.4.

In any case, not doubting that it's a durable engine, but for a retrofit application where performance is usually a higher priority, it would not be my 1st choice, based on popularity, and aftermarket parts spectrum.
 






I think the 5.4 doesn't respond well to lots of additional power- I don't know about the 4.6. Either will run for 300k+ miles without much issue as long as power is kept fairly stock.

At least that's what I've found in my research while owning a 5.4L.
 












Ha, don't I know it! Twins! Congrats, should be good times.

Regarding the 5.4, I just don't see it in my circles as an engine consideration in any retrofit applications. My circles consist of hardcore four wheelers and Ford musclecar performance, often turbocharged or supercharged. I'm not sure why it's not popular, but the DOHC 4.6 is more commonly found in Mustang engine bays than a 5.4.

In any case, not doubting that it's a durable engine, but for a retrofit application where performance is usually a higher priority, it would not be my 1st choice, based on popularity, and aftermarket parts spectrum.

Fair enough I will give you that, they are pretty fat pigs, bigger than a 460! lol. But if you can fit it, why not? Lot's of guys have them in 60's muscle. Shock tower delete and they fit no problem, on top of them being dirt cheap in junkyards right now. My 5.4 in my Mustang should be making 375-400 whp naturally aspirated with probably 400-425 wtq. It's built at this point to handle 1000 hp at the crank and as soon as I can save up the funds will end up with probably a 3.4 Whipple. My truck build will be a twin turbo 5.4 DOHC and both vehicles will be daily driven. My F-150 is my tow rig even. Tons of guys supercharge and turbocharge these engines. Ever seen the turbo Lightning's guys are building? They're insane.

Not sure why you wouldn't love a 5.4 2v in a 4 wheel toy. The bottom end torque is almost unmatched due to the ridiculously long stroke. My 98 150 puts out over 300 ft lbs bone stock at 2k rpm (factory rated is 330 at 2k rpm) and you can feel it, that truck JUMPS. For an 18 year old truck, that's impressive in my book. That's still a damn nice number by today's standards. That 5.4 moves that truck out pretty damn well IMO. Hell if it was good enough for the Ford GT it's good enough for me.

Far as aftermarket what all do you want that you can't find? The aftermarket on the mod engines is pretty decent if you ask me. Years ago yes, I will agree it was pretty weak, but these days there are tons of options. Hell the intake ports on the heads of the Navigator are HUGE and there's really no need for an aftermarket head. The flow numbers are not far off from the Ford GT and Cobra R heads. A little port work and you have a seriously nice flowing head for damn cheap vs what a pair of aftermarket heads would cost. Plus you have the coolant running through your exhaust ports which is a serious advantage over many other heads in other vehicles. For the 2V applications a set of TFS twisted wedge heads and you're ready to rock. I put down 340 WHP NA on my old 4.6 running the 38cc Trickflows and their stage 1 cam on a stock bottom end.

Now yes the 4.6 is more common in the Mustang but that's because it came factory. The only 5.4 was the 300 Cobra R's built. There are plenty of guys who have done 5.4 swaps. Take a look on youtube, guys Lighting swap these cars these days, I've seen the 5.4 DOHC in them too out of the Navi. Course they look like Mad Max with the blower sticking out the hood but they do it haha. I plan on using a TorkTech kit on mine and running a cowl hood so I don't have some crazy thing sticking out of my hood. For now I have an HPS intake that clears my factory hood to run it NA.

I think the 5.4 doesn't respond well to lots of additional power- I don't know about the 4.6. Either will run for 300k+ miles without much issue as long as power is kept fairly stock.

At least that's what I've found in my research while owning a 5.4L.

Respond well how? In stock form? Ask lightning guys with 4-500whp on their 5.4 SOHC. Or the guys with Mustang GT's running Prochargers putting down 4-450 WHP on stock rotating assemblies daily driven. If you're talking bolt on's I do agree, these engines were built so well from the factory there really are not many restrictions that can be taken care of on the cheap. Now if you need more power than 4-500, yes you need to upgrade the rods and pistons, crank is fine though, even the cast crank under 600 hp and 6500 rpm is ok. Unless it's an 03/04 Cobra which of course had a fully forged engine from the factory, those will take much more. Try that with a 302, after 500 or so you need a dart block on top of a rotating assembly, the mod blocks will take anything you can throw at them. That right there is a huge advantage. Don't get me wrong I'm a huge pushrod fan, but what I'm getting at is the Mod engines are not as scary as a lot of people think. Forged cranks came in most 5.4 97-98 vehicles and all 99-01 5.4 DOHC Navigators if you really wanted to go forged for peace of mind. If you're going boosted and planning on a serious twin screw or the like, just tap the crank snout a bit deeper and put a stud in, it it'll be fine.

The 5.4 blows in stock configuration. SOHC or DOHC.

Please explain how this is the case. Again, I'm respectfully asking this question. Hell, maybe I'll learn something and will be able to make my builds even better.
 






The 2 main reasons I chose a 5.4 over a 4.6 are low end torque and frame fitment. The block is essentially the same except taller which will make it easier to get the exhaust manifolds to fit ontop of the frame.

Also parts are WAAAAAY cheaper than a coyote nor could I justify the cost of a coyote and pcm to run it just to take it and rag it out in some mud. For the $5000 it would cost to get just a coyote with a pcm I could spend $2500 at MMR and make just as much power as a coyote and I would have forged internals where as your normal stock coyote is not all forged.

I have considered building the 302 that is in the explorer now but what fun is that? The reason you don't see the 5.4 much in drag cars is its BIG and most guys out racing still are stuck on pushrod motors because of the ease to work on. I want over 300hp and 300tq to the wheels and it takes a ton to get a 302 there. I want to use a Ford motor so out of all the 5.4 is my best bet for price/power/reliability.
 






The 2 main reasons I chose a 5.4 over a 4.6 are low end torque and frame fitment. The block is essentially the same except taller which will make it easier to get the exhaust manifolds to fit ontop of the frame.

Also parts are WAAAAAY cheaper than a coyote nor could I justify the cost of a coyote and pcm to run it just to take it and rag it out in some mud. For the $5000 it would cost to get just a coyote with a pcm I could spend $2500 at MMR and make just as much power as a coyote and I would have forged internals where as your normal stock coyote is not all forged.

I have considered building the 302 that is in the explorer now but what fun is that? The reason you don't see the 5.4 much in drag cars is its BIG and most guys out racing still are stuck on pushrod motors because of the ease to work on. I want over 300hp and 300tq to the wheels and it takes a ton to get a 302 there. I want to use a Ford motor so out of all the 5.4 is my best bet for price/power/reliability.

Just a personal opinion (and many people will agree) don't buy from MMR. I spent 10 grand there last year and they don't ever give me the time of day. Not to mention sent me the wrong rods, don't respond to e-mails and seem to generally not care to get your business. They're salesmen and will sell you crap you don't need and or sell you the wrong stuff. I'd shop elsewhere.
 



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Please explain how this is the case. Again, I'm respectfully asking this question. Hell, maybe I'll learn something and will be able to make my builds even better.

They're low reving truck engines that dont make very good power in factory form unless it came with a supercharger. The 2v 5.4 makes the same hp as the 4.6 and only 48 ft-lb more. I know they can make 1000+ hp, so Im not saying they cant make power. Its just expensive to do so.


Dont get me wrong, Im a Ford guy all the way and own a 2002 Mustang gt with a Kenne Bell. Its just a 2.2 @ 9 psi but it put down 400whp. I wanted to swap a 2v 5.4 when I first bought the car in 2008 but I quickly realized it made no sense when I can just supercharge it and make more power. My engine is all stock so I dont want to go any higher with the boost, plus my fuel system probably wont support it.
 






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