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fully independent suspension!?!?!?!?

91'explorer 2wd

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McAllen, TX
Year, Model & Trim Level
'92 XLT 4x4
The new 2002 explorer is even coming with a IRS:eek: , what's ford becoming, just finished reading the article on the new motor trend:( , i don't know what y'all think but i personally think it $ucks.
 



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Originally posted by 91'explorer 2wd
The new 2002 explorer is even coming with a IRS:eek: , what's ford becoming, just finished reading the article on the new motor trend:( , i don't know what y'all think but i personally think it $ucks.

It's about competition! The Grand Cherokee is IFS and IRS. Atleast they didn't switch to UNIBODY!
 






Re: Re: fully independent suspension!?!?!?!?

Originally posted by NaplesBill
Atleast they didn't switch to UNIBODY!

Yet!:rolleyes:
 












Originally posted by Stephen
Actually the Grand Cherokee has live axles front and rear.

You are correct! I don't know what my fingers were typing! I meant the Acura MDX. It was voted SUV of the year! I have no idea where I got Jeep Grand Cherokee from Acura MDX?????
 






The MDX is funny. It doesnt even hide that its a Minivan. Personally given the choice, I'd take a Honda Odyssey, I think its better looking.
 






I think the MDX is goofy looking too! Why didn't they just make a 4x4 Odyssey? I remember the Honda Odyssey "dune buggy" we had growing up. That thing was such a blast!
 






I remember watching Car and Driver TV a while back and they were testing the MDX offroad, it was really quite amusing to watch the suspension bottom out constantly. I've driven it, and inside and out it screams minivan. Nice...but no. Its the future though, the Lexus RX300, Mercedes ML are no better. The X5 is the same but at least BMW doesnt kid themselves, they miss no opportunities to say it is useless offroad and as a utility vehicle.
 






:confused: someone please explain what unibody is?
 






Re: IRS

What, exactly, do you guys think is wrong with new independent rear suspension
in the 2002 Explorer? Let's hear some real technical input (both pros and cons),
not just, "I think is sucks."

From everything I've read, IRS is vastly superior to the old, antiquated live axle
setup.
 






Tech,
The IFS and IRS setups are tougher to modify and gain decent suspension travel while offroading. While the fully independent suspensions offer a much better ride on the road, they are limited in their effectiveness offroad - especially limited by the ole cost-to-modify factor.

Jon
 






Someone correct me if I'm wrong. Unibody construction is where the rear suspension is connected to the body of the car and there are no frame rails front to back. Our Explorers have frame rails front to back and the rear end is mounted to the rails just like a truck. This is why I call my Explorer a truck not an SUV.
 






I believe live axles are more indestructible than independent systems, but as far as effectiveness as a whole, strictly aside the Explorer, I think they are vastly superior than live axles. If you consider the Baja Buggies and a few "trucks" that enter the Baja 1000, they utilize independent suspensions. And then there's the beast of all commercial SUV's the Hummer. If an independent system is going to be employed, it pays off to design it for flexibility on and off the road. Flexibility being used in the way of versatility not actual suspension flex. I could see being able to modify the 2002 Explorer's rear suspension (custom of course) and having it be a capable off-roader. Just my thoughts. Times change and with time things improve.
 






Tech,
IFS and IRS are great on-road. But once you get off-road, as everyone has said, they suck. Give you an example: on my truck with IFS I have a total of 7.5" of wheel travel (thats after my mods. before I only had 6" or so). With the older I-beam front-end I've heard of people getting 20" out of it. Without all that wheel travel of the IFS the truck can't do nearly as well off-road. Also as FMExplorer pointed out, it requires much more effort and money to lift a truck with an IFS or/and IRS
 












One more thought on IFS/IRS vs Solid Axles, the rummor that Independents handle better is not really true. They do ride better, but in Higher profile vehicles solid axles can actually handle better because the tires stay perpendicular to the road. This came from the mouth of a Jeep engineer when talking about the suspension of the Grand Cherokee and why they chose to stay with solid axles on the Grand a few years back. The steering system makes a big difference in handling also. In IFS vehicles a rack and pinion system can be used whick is more presice and can have better feel. In Solid axles vehicles the old recirculating ball steering box system has to be used. These systems are strong but do not usually have as good road feel. Also in high speed off road situations Independents may have advantages, less unsprung weight , less hopping around, but at low speeds like rock crawling Solid axles work much better, they do not loose ground clearance and they can articulate much better, that is they have much more flex.
 






just to clear up...our SUV/Explorers are TRUCKS....mine says so on the stickers on the visor and in my manual. It says they are a multi-purpose utility truck and have different handling characteristics than cars. and that driving it like a car could cause serious injury or death!
well, something like that.
 






yea.. i cant see our explorers and the honda crx's both being called an SUV. the explorer is definately a truck. think of it as a truck with a hardtop over the back

-mike
 






If you are limiting this discussion to strictly off road vehicles, then I can't argue that IFR/IRS is better (or worse) than conventional live axles. However, I disagree with your generalized statement that independent suspensions don't handle as well as live axles. Mercedes Benz builds some of the best handling automobiles in the world and I think nearly all of them (if not all) have fully independent suspension systems. The superior handling these vehicles exhibit is not a rumor.

Back to Explorers; I am a 10+ year owner of a '91 XLT as well as a new '02. I can assure you that the '02 handles vastly better than the old live axle system. The rougher the road, the more noticeable the advantage becomes. I'm talking about factory stock setups, of course.

As to the merits, or not, of modifying IFR/IRS suspensions for serious off-road use, well, maybe it would reasonable to give the 3rd party mod developers a chance to market some parts. Who knows what might be available a couple of years from now. When I think of the Baja racers that are IFR/IRS equipped, it could be quite impressive.
 



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As far as Baja vehicles and Trophy Trucks go, you'll notice they do have independent front suspension which provides great flew. The thing is, they are 2wd for the most part. Throw 4wd under there and you limit the flex a lot. You'll also notice that the still maintain a solid rear axle on these trucks too. The front suspension on the 95+ trucks has tremendous limitation. The short-long arm setup has very little room for flex. Yeah, Hummers have fully independent suspension, but that suspension is setup for some hard use. Our Explorers how ever are not. Plus, have you ever seen a Hummer with its tires shoved up in the wells? Even Hummers have very limited flex with their offroad design suspension. If I recall correctly, the Hummer also has some gearing in the wheel area so the axle runs into the top of the wheel instead of directly to the wheel like our Explorers. This allows for the truck to sit higher. Not sure if that came out right.

The 91-94 Explorers have a pretty good setup with the TTB. The 2wd 91-94 Explorers can be set up great for Baja. In order for a fully independent suspension to be all around good offroad, the best thing to do would be to have the axle pumpkin in the middle and some long suspension arms coming out from the pumpkin. The rear on the newer Explorers are like this, but bear in mind the New Explorers were designed for the grocery getter. Beaf it up and it would be great. Take out the short-long arm setup in the front and put something like the Rear suspension and you have yourself something pretty capable. Only downside is, don't expect your tires to be flat on the ground.

The part about independent suspension not sitting flat isn't true, for the most part. The short-long arm setup allows for the tire to remain level with the road at all times. This is the issue with front wheels drive cars. If you watch the front tires react, they remain flat to the road. But if you look at the rear, where less attention is payed because they do not have to concern themselves with a drivetrain or anything, the tires will swing in. This is what happens with the 91-94 Explorers. With the TTB setup, the front tires swing in, this is a different kind of IFS setup. This is too much to explain and write about. Truth is, if you put independent suspension all around that is like the short-long arm suspension on the 95+ Explorers, the tires remain flat. Anyway... Sorry if this is confusing. Here are some pics:

liveaxle2.jpg

liveaxle4.jpg


Another downside to Independent Suspension is that it leaves sort of a wall, especial when you lift it. A good front skid plate can correct this. This is a benefit to IFS, the fact that you can cover the front end pretty wheel with a skid plat which can help when the short comings com into play.

Another downside, as many of the 95+ guys know, don't count on a slip differential or locker up front! Ok, enough of my blabbing!
 






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