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What can I do with it now? (Lund Racing Tuner)

Discussion in 'Modified 2011- 2019 Explorers - Tuning & Mods' started by JDookie, October 4, 2013.

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  1. JDookie

    JDookie New Member

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    I've decided to remove my Lund Racing tunes, and put my 13' Sport back to stock permanently, but I am now learning that (unlike the Superchips tuners) that once the tuner "marries" a VIN number it can never be re-used for any other vehicle.....or at least that's what I'm being told. I even emailed Livernois to see if it could be formatted, and then used for their tunes since they use the exact same device, and can do it with theirs, but they told me no because when they looked up my serial number it comes up as being locked to Lund. After paying $600 for this thing, is it worth any more than a paperweight now?? Anyone have any ideas??
     
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  3. T-1000

    T-1000 Member

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    Sorry I don't have the answer but since I'm about to order one of these tunes I'd like to know what prompted you to want to stop using it.
     
  4. blwnsmoke

    blwnsmoke Staff Member Moderator Elite Explorer

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    Not trying to bash the vendors on here but this is exactly why I won't buy one. I shouldn't have to throw it away because I used it. I've bought used and sold used SCT tuners several times. The tuners would still make money off of used tuners because programs would still need to be bought with the new vehicles strategy.

    Instead, you guys get screwed.
     
  5. Ryan327

    Ryan327 Active Member

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    So why are you going back to stock?
     
  6. JDookie

    JDookie New Member

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    I didn't start this thread to bash Lund or any other company for that matter. I am truly trying to see if there's any life left for this device, that I just paid $600 for, other than taking up space on my desk. That being said, if I would have read something like this prior to buying the tuner a couple months ago, I can honestly say that I never would have bought it. All I read was rave reviews, and not once did I see anyone mention anything about not being able to sell it when I was done with it. It has been my experience in the past that the tuners could be sent back to the dealer to have formatted or unlocked for a fee, which I was always more than happy to pay.

    One more time before I answer the questions in this thread, it is not my intention to bash Lund Racing in any way, I am purely going to state my own personal opinion from *my* experience. If you think you will get offended by me being honest, please stop reading this post, and move on. On the other hand, if you want to hear about my experience and opinion, by all means, feel free to read and even contribute.

    So to answer the questions as to why I went back to stock......one simple answer......driveability.

    To answer the question properly, I'm going to start from the beginning. I ordered a Lund Racing tuner which came with their 91 and 93octane "Daily Driver" tunes, and also their 93 octane "SuperSport" tune. I started by installing the 91 octane Daily Driver, and immediately noticed an increase in power, but also noticed that the shifting was quite hard, and idle was a bit rough. I ran this tune for a couple days with 93 octane fuel hoping that things would settle down after putting a few miles on it, and they didn't. In fact, shifting got much harder, and the idle upon startup was just awful, and would take a few seconds before it would clear up enough to drive. Now this was all with normal driving, and since this is supposed to be their most tame "Daily Driver" tune, I wanted to see the progression through the tunes. So before I moved to the 93 octane Daily Driver, I wanted to feel WOT, and yes, the benefits of the custom were immediately obvious. Torque management was greatly reduced, boost was obviously increased, but the shifts........good lord. It felt like the transmission was going to blow up on the spot it slammed into gear so hard under 100% throttle, so I immediately lifted. When I looked in the mirror, I also saw a cloud of black smoke behind me. So it seemed that to be on the safe side with A/F ratio, and being a 91 octane tune, they set it up to dump quite a bit of fuel. Not sure if this is good or bad, just an observation.

    So at this point, I immediately send Lund an email to complain about the rough idle, and shifting. At first I was told that I was the only one complaining about it, but shortly after they released an updated set of tunes which addressed the shifting, so I clearly mustn't have been the only one complaining. I will give Lund props here, they were definitely willing to work with me on the shifting if I didn't like the update, so that should be noted.

    So here I am with a complete new set of tunes files, which are also the current tune files you would receive if ordering one today. I skip the 91 octane tune and go straight to the 93 this time. Overall shifting is MUCH better. Normal driving is much more tame, and WOT no longer feels or sounds like you're getting rear-ended. Power feels great, just like before, and I also notice that there's no smoke this time at WOT either, so overall the new tune file is night and day better than it was before, BUT not without driveability flaws. During normal driving situations, which is how I drive this vehicle 99.999% of the time, if I increase throttle such as entering the freeway and increasing speed to match the flow of traffic, and then quickly let off the throttle (such as going from 75% throttle to 0 in an instant), there would be a pause with downshifting and then it would slam into gear, and it would do this every single time I let off the throttle too fast, which gets quite embarrassing when you have passengers in the car, and you are jerking their necks around just driving in normal traffic. I've even had a few people ask me why I haven't brought my car back to the dealer to have the transmission looked at, and then have to explain how it's the tune, not the transmission.

    So that's just one issue. The biggest issue that now has me back to stock is the absolute most annoying and embarrassing, which is the rough idle at every single startup. Every time I started the engine, I would have to sit and wait for the idle to clear up before I could even think about putting it in gear or moving, and the rough idle has gotten so bad over the past couple weeks that it made my car sound like a piece of junk. The whole car would shake, and it would sound like it was only running on 3 cylinders for nearly a minute, which doesn't sound like much, but trust me when I say it's the most annoying thing in the world when you are in a rush, and can't move until your engine decides to actually run on all cylinders. I actually started a thread about this not that long ago, and several people are experiencing it with and without a tune, but I can tell you that the very first startup after returning my computer back to stock resulted in a perfectly clean/clear/smooth startup with no rough idle what so ever. All of my shifting is back to normal, and I can back to being proud of my car instead of being embarrassed.

    So, to sum all of this up. If you don't drive your Sport as a daily driver and all you're interested in is pure power and speed, and don't care that it will be at the expense of some driveability issues, then these tunes are definitely for you because they certainly deliver in the horsepower dept.......BUT......if you do drive your Sport on a daily basis, and maybe share this car with your wife then be prepared for complaints from the wife, random comments from your friends telling you to get your car fixed, and the annoyance of the worst idle you have ever felt every single time you start the car.

    Keep in mind, I'm commenting on power and I never even loaded the SuperSport tune which is supposed to be their high boost awesome race tune. Honestly, with the way the 91 and 93 octane tunes acted, I am just scared that it's going to break something. I'm going to leave well enough alone, and just move on.

    Now, I'm sure people are going to feel compelled to post how their Lund tunes are the greatest, and they don't have any of these issues, etc. etc. which is fine. I'm sure there are people out there that aren't having these issues, and I wish I were one of them, but unfortunately I'm not, and I just decided that the pros definitely didn't outweigh the cons in this situation.
     
  7. anomadtoo

    anomadtoo Member

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    Not being able to resell the tune device like most other devices was my big issue also; its ridiculous really; but I bought it. I'm sorry you didn't catch the fact you couldn't resell, as this was indeed posted months ago in that particular Lund forum topic.
     
  8. MarlonF

    MarlonF New Member

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    Aren't tuners just protecting the money they invested into creating the tunes? What would prevent someone from flashing 10-20 cars with one device if they weren't locked. I believe Livernois will let you reset the device for a $250 fee so you can flash a different car. Maybe Lund can do the same.
     
  9. Ryan327

    Ryan327 Active Member

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    I've just never thought of ever getting money back from a tuning setup, it's a sunk cost. The thing to me is that you have paid for tune and the time to develop and maintain it, not the the cost of the hardware. It wouldn't make any sense for a tuner to allow a tune to be transferable.

    To me if you were able to recoup any costs from the sale it should only be for the hardware costs, which i just couldn't imagine being very much, especially if a person had to pay extra costs to relicense.
     
  10. JDookie

    JDookie New Member

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    I agree that you shouldn't be able to tune multiple cars with the same set of tunes, that's not the topic here. What I'm talking about is being able to use the same device, but buying a new set of tunes to use on a different vehicle. There would be no loss of money on the vendor's end other than not selling an additional device. They would still be getting paid for a new set of tunes, and would also be paid to unlock and then re-lock the device to another VIN, which is exactly what Livernois does, and why I don't understand why Lund can't when they use the exact same devices.


    Again, nobody is saying that "tunes" should be transferable. You are completely correct, a tune is a sunk cost. All we are talking about here is being able to use the device itself on another car AFTER paying a fee to unlock or unlicense it.

    All of this being said, if I were running these tunes for a couple or three years or so, I really wouldn't care one bit that I couldn't do anything with the device, and would just toss it in a Best Buy recycle bin, but the fact that I've only had it two months is what's got me trying to see if there's any way possible to recoup any part of the $600 regardless of how little it may be. These tunes have sucked from the very beginning, and need a LOT of work, which I would hope would eventually be figured out, but when you're paying an absolute premium for a set of tunes, you should get a premium product. For example, I bought an SCT tuner with not just three custom tunes, but SIX custom tune files for my Raptor from 5 Star Tuning for only $375, and the best part is, the actual SCT device can easily be unlocked and reloaded with tunes for another vehicle as I see fit, so the device doesn't go to waste, and the only cost I have to incur is for the actual tune files, and not new devices every time.

    At this point, I'm pretty much chalking this up as a lesson learned, and will probably toss it in the closet until I trade in the car in two years. If Lund ever refines their tunes to a level that is up to my standards for normal everyday driving, then I will use it again, and if not, I'll just recycle it.
     
  11. Ryan327

    Ryan327 Active Member

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    Well, I wish you the best of luck with it. I thought I remember reading a post where he made it clear it was locked and non transferable, but that could just have easily been after you had purchased it. Hopefully the kinks get worked out here soon as I haven't been happy with things since the last revision...not to mention mine keeps blowing off hoses...
     
  12. plumbago

    plumbago Active Member

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    Sounds like you just want to try Livernois Tunes on a Lund tuner? What's another $600.00 when you drive a Sport and a Raptor.....
     
  13. WHITE608

    WHITE608 New Member

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    I see the point $600 and ur stuck with it, plus for 600 it should have zero problems
     
  14. JeffsSport

    JeffsSport Member

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    :burnout:
     
  15. ieee_raider

    ieee_raider Active Member

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    Not being able to reuse and resell is just crazy.
    I had an Edge Evolution in my F150, and they basically had it set up where once you dumped the tune to the truck, the tuner wouldn't work on any other truck.
    You'd have to return the tune to stock, and it would then return the "key" or "license" to the tuner so that the tuner could be used on another truck. So basically the tuner could be used in limitless trucks, but only one at a time.

    Seems like the way to go to me.
    And those saying he should've read it here... so he should scour every forum on the internet before ordering? It's something a lot of buyers do, but they should HAVE to.
     
  16. blwnsmoke

    blwnsmoke Staff Member Moderator Elite Explorer

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    Tuners don't make the device, they make the tunes. If you buy a used tuner, as I said earlier, you still need to buy new tunes as the vehicle strategy is different. You need tunes made for your pcm. The tuner would still make money because they would sell you new tunes.

    Example, I bought my SCT for $450 which came with 3 custom tunes. When I was done with it, I sold it for $200 and the new owner paid the tuner $130 for the same 3 tunes I had but with their strategy. Therefore, the tuner still made his money.

    You also can't flash 10-20 cars. When you flash a PCM with a tune, your stock tune downloads to the tuner and your tuner is locked to your vehicle. When you return to stock, that is when the tuner is unlocked BUT again, one would still have to buy new tunes for the next vehicle.
    This is what tuners should do, not make it a paper weight.
     
  17. blwnsmoke

    blwnsmoke Staff Member Moderator Elite Explorer

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    If you read my example which is true, I recouped almost 50% by reselling my hardware. Devices do not take any abuse... they are worth money. If someone can save $100-$150 on a used tuner, they would be crazy not to. Think of how many times it is actually used... maybe a half dozen times for all of a couple minutes each time. They are still brand new even when they are several years old.
     
  18. Ryan327

    Ryan327 Active Member

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    I see where you are coming from, but to me I would think the tuner itself would be worth less that that...and the tune worth more. Odd how you can make 200 and the tuner only makes 130.
     
  19. QwikEVO

    QwikEVO Active Member

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    This is why Opensource tuning is the best.

    I bought a $75 USB to OBD cord, paid $25 and did my own tuning as many damn times as I wanted.

    And then I used the cord on many other friend's Evo's and STi's.
     
  20. OffTrac

    OffTrac Elite Explorer

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    People wouldn't buy $600 tunes if they knew what they were doing.
     
  21. JohnBoyToo

    JohnBoyToo Active Member

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    Coming from the sct platforms, I too have lost interest in the tuners that can't be resold...

    Eventually I am going to change vehicles and,
    if you think about it...
    not being able to move the tuner along would be like having the CAR married to me and I can't resell it to someone else :)

    My opinion is that it is a small niche market and the sellers can make the rules ---
    and more power to them (pun intended !)
    they are creating the market and so should be able to play by their rules !

    Now if the sct's and h&s's and .... decide to get into the market, that may change... but for now, it is what it is !
     

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