Timing chain replacement and balance shaft delete

[JakePSD]

I've done some searching and can't really find what I'm looking for. I am replacing the engine in my girlfriends explorer with a known good runner. However I don't want any surprises down the road, so I want to go through the failure prone timing system. I'm trying to do this as cheap as possible but also be reliable. My biggest question, can I safely get away with just replacing the guides and tensioners? I know the engine runs with no noise. The only noise is on a cold start after sitting for days.

My other question is regarding the balance shaft. Since I'm looking for reliability, one less thing attached to the timing system seems like a great idea. Also a little less rotating mass might free up a pony or 2. Can I just remove the chain and leave everything else in there?

 

[Tech By Trade]

For a couple hundred bucks you can get the complete timing gears and guides from rock auto. You need to pull the chains and gears to change them anyway so you are going to need the timing set. Might as well do them all at once and do them right. It comes with a balance shaft guide and gear as well so you might as well change them all. This horrible design is going to fail when it feels like it anyway so no point in doing the job half a$$ed.

 

[Mr. Alligator]

Balancer shaft chain?

Good question.

If i could delete balancer chain without destroying driveability, I could resolve balancer chain rattle without pulling engine. I was not able to fnd a truly definitive answer to the delete balancer chain question when I had the timing chain cover off the front of the motor. Seemed like the answer was "probably ok", but failure here would seem foolish...


So I have erred in favor of trying to go easy on the chain by avoiding lots of warm restarts on the engine. Then the chain rattle is less audible...

And just waiting for balancer chain to fail, and probably it will destroy the primary timing chain on its way through the lower end of the engine. THEN it will be decision time.

Unless you can get a definitive answer here and I can snip the dang thing!

Following.

Mr. Alligator

 

[JakePSD]

From the reading I've done it appears that using anything but Ford parts is a bad idea. Seems many aftermarket guides are of a worse design than Ford's. Granted many of these threads are old and I have no idea if that info still applies. By skipping the balance shaft I don't consider that as halfassed, I consider that as a reliability measure. That is, of course, if its safe to do so by just removing the chain, and guides if needbe. I don't wanna have to drop the girdle to remove the shaft as I've read realigning it is a pain.

 

[2000StreetRod]

balance shaft oiling

The need for the balance shaft has been debated at length. My opinion is that it's functionality is not needed on RWD vehicles since Mustangs were produced for 5 years with no balance shaft. If you do a lot of off road driving in 4WD low it probably reduces some vibration otherwise Ford would not have spent the money to implement it. If you decide to disable the balance shaft just remove or cut the chain. Do not actually remove the shaft or there will be unrestricted oil flow from the ports that oil the shaft.

I think that OEM timing chain parts are superior to others: SOHC V6 Timing Chain Parts Sources. However, I think that Cloyes' components are a reasonable compromise for cost vs quality. Most people don't keep their vehicles as long as me - I had my 1970 Jeep Wagoneer for 24 years.

 

[JakePSD]

Neither of us are remotely concerned about the slight possibility of maybe having a slight vibration at a narrow RPM range. Neither of us do much off roading either. Hers is 2wd anyway. The motor I'm putting in is from an AWD mountaineer. So just remove the chain and leave the tensioner and guides there?

As far as quality parts, I have no idea how long we are gonna keep it. Could be a year, might be 10. I just don't wanna have to pull this motor out and do this job again. I do know sometimes aftermarket is better than OE, but unless its like that with these parts, I'll probably stick with OE unless someone can convince me otherwise. I don't mind sacrificing a bit of quality for lower price on some things, but when we are talking days worth of labor and risking the entire engine, I'm willing to spend more for quality.

 

[2000StreetRod]

just remove the chain

The block cradle has to be removed in order to remove the balance shaft chain tensioner because its mounting bolts are vertical.

The primary (crankshaft to jackshaft) chain tensioner and guide can be removed without retiming the engine. As I recall the left (front) cassette can be replaced without removing the crankshaft sprocket.

The balance shaft chain is not very large. The easiest thing to do is simply cut it with large snips or a bolt cutter being careful to prevent metal pieces getting into the engine. Sawing or grinding the chain increases the chance of contamination.

 

[CDW6212R]

The need for the balance shaft has been debated at length. My opinion is that it's functionality is not needed on RWD vehicles since Mustangs were produced for 5 years with no balance shaft. If you do a lot of off road driving in 4WD low it probably reduces some vibration otherwise Ford would not have spent the money to implement it. If you decide to disable the balance shaft just remove or cut the chain. Do not actually remove the shaft or there will be unrestricted oil flow from the ports that oil the shaft.
....

Is that all that was done to eliminate the balance shaft Dale? I know it's been years since a trusted member did away with his, but I thought he did more than just removing the chain.

That chain and its tensioner are very very flimsy, I recall mine in 2005. I did the front chains etc, but not the balance shaft pieces, ... and then I noticed that little tensioner broken. I had somehow broken it in handling the crankshaft gear. I then noticed that the balance shaft was out of time(it has dots on the gears), so I had to drop the balance shaft assembly to re-time it. That's a heavy chunk of steel parts.

 

[JakePSD]

So just snip the chain, remove it, and I'm done? Sounds easy enough. How hard is it to realign the girdle?

Also on rockauto I found this complete set for $240ish + shipping. Life time guarantee. They claim it meets or exceeds OE quality. Anyone have any info on it or know a a way to find out if their claims are true? I know lifetime warranty doesn't cover labor but at least it covers the parts if they fail. I can't see em putting lifetime warranty on something they know is gonna fail quickly.

http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/moreinfo.php?pk=5969472&cc=1377660&jnid=552&jpid=8

 

[2000StreetRod]

removing the balance shaft

Is that all that was done to eliminate the balance shaft Dale? I know it's been years since a trusted member did away with his, but I thought he did more than just removing the chain.

I remember one member removed the shaft and had to come up with a way to plug the oil ports.

That chain and its tensioner are very very flimsy, I recall mine in 2005. I did the front chains etc, but not the balance shaft pieces, ... and then I noticed that little tensioner broken. I had somehow broken it in handling the crankshaft gear. I then noticed that the balance shaft was out of time(it has dots on the gears), so I had to drop the balance shaft assembly to re-time it. That's a heavy chunk of steel parts.

It shouldn't be necessary to remove the shaft to align it. The alignment is determined at the factory and then marked. The shop manual warns not to remove the sprocket on the front of the balance shaft assembly or the alignment will be lost. It can take up to seven rotations of the sprocket before the marks align: Balance Shaft Timing Procedure

 

[JakePSD]

Well if all I gotta do is cut out and remove that chain, which I can't see how it would be a problem, then we can probably just end the discussion about it here and move on with our lives haha. Unless anyone has any objections to that idea.

I'd like to know what you guys think on that cloyes kit I posted. If it lasts 100k on this set I think that's worth it. I tend to keep vehicles a long time but have yet to put 100k on one.

 

[2000StreetRod]

block cradle alignment

So just snip the chain, remove it, and I'm done? Sounds easy enough. How hard is it to realign the girdle? . . .

Unless you're going to replace/remove the balance shaft chain tensioner, the crankshaft main or rod bearings or the piston rings there is no need to remove the block cradle: SOHC V6 Block Cradle removal/installation

 

[JakePSD]

Guess I'll leave it alone then. I'll just snip the chain and call it good. I went ahead and ordered the cloyes set. I guess I'll take my chances. It doesn't appear to come with the replacement bolts though. Probably have to just bend over at Ford for those. I also bought all new ignition components and water pump too. This stuff will never be easier to replace then when the engine is sitting on my shop floor. Is there any special coolant to use or is the Auto Zone green stuff perfectly fine for these?

 

[JakePSD]

One other thing, I'm having trouble finding a solid answer on which bolts are torque to yield and therefore must be replaced, and what the part numbers are for those bolts.

 

[CDW6212R]

You do need the new bolts for the crank and jack shaft. I'd replace the small ones for the cassette too, those are sticking out and unsupported really. Go easy with removing any of the smaller bolts, they can break off in the block, head etc.

I bought the Cloyes set which was for 2WD, which didn't come with the balance shaft chain or its tensioner. I liked it better because it came with more of the other parts needed, external tensioners and washers, little parts etc. That's why I asked about the balance shaft, I think I'll remove that chain also.

I had my pan girdle off anyway to replace the oil pump. I forgot why I decided the balance shaft had to come off to re-time it. I had a cheap brand shop manual of as friend to read, that may have been what made me do that.

 

[turborich]

Aftermarket parts are fine for some repairs but I would get OEM Ford parts when it comes to something that is either really hard to get at such as this repair. The extra money and piece of mind is worth it.

 

[JakePSD]

Ok, a few more questions. I'm currently balls deep in this thing. So I ordered the non balance shaft kit since the chain for it is getting (already is) cut. In this kit, the crank sprocket that runs the jackshaft (I laugh every time I see that) is different than the one I pulled off. The new one has a bit of an extension on one side. It appears this is to compensate for the lack of a bal shaft sprocket. So can I pop the key off the crank, remove the bal shaft sprocket, and run the new gear, or just slap the old gear back on? I can't really move much more on this til I know. All I can do now is slide the right cassette in place and wait for the new damn TTY bolts to come in Monday.

 

[2000StreetRod]

same position

The crankshaft sprocket for the primary chain has to be aligned with the jackshaft front sprocket. The RWD crankshaft sprocket must be installed with the recess facing forward or the harmonic balancer will be out of alignment when installed.

If the position of the RWD sprocket without the balance shaft sprocket is the same as the position of the 4WD sprocket with the balance shaft sprocket then that's correct.

Edit: replaced "jackshaft" with "balance shaft".

 

[JakePSD]

Balance shaft sprocket you mean? I'm still confused. I'll take a picture when I get home. The 2wd crank primary sprocket is shaped different.

 

[Tech By Trade]

Pretty sure your stuck reusing the old gears. There may be a difference between the cranks in the balance and non balance engines for the gears. Check Tasca and see if there are specific p/n for the cranks from each, that will tell you.