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LED headlights

If anyone would like to see how superior retrofit White 4300K/5000K HID's are compared to retrofit Blue 6000K/6500K LED's you can buy them here:


Select 9006 for the bulbs and 4300K for the color (this is the fullest spectrum of light, highest CRI and most lumen (4,900), anything beyond 5000K is less lumen).

$38.99 for the full set/kit.

Spare pairs of bulbs are only $15.99 if you want to order multiple colors (like comparing 4300K and 5000K) to try them all although I would not exceed 5000K as blue tinted light creates glare.
 



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Old technology, comparable to a fax machine, they don't provide clean distortion free illumination like a LED.

Moreover all you've done is attack peopleLEDs and try to scape people.

There are 1000 sets of led sold each day and with greater percentage of vehicle in high population sates, the forums would be filled with California horror stories if all the fear you type was remotely true.
 






Old technology, comparable to a fax machine, they don't provide clean distortion free illumination like a LED.

Moreover all you've done is attack peopleLEDs and try to scape people.

There are 1000 sets of led sold each day and with greater percentage of vehicle in high population sates, the forums would be filled with California horror stories if all the fear you type was remotely true.
Yes, thousands of mis aligned cheap ass lights that blind oncoming driver's. Agreed.
 






If anyone would like to see how superior HID's are compared to LED's you can buy them here:


Select 9006 for the bulbs and 4300K for the color (this is the brightest color, highest CRI and most lumens, anything beyond 5000K is less lumens).

$38.99 for the full set/kit.

Spare pairs of bulbs are only $15.99 if you want to order multiple colors to try them all.
The bulbs you link to is a conversion system and not a single bulb direct replacement like an LED bulb. The ballasts needs to be mounted securely to make the installation safe and reliable. Also, HID systems are only legal in two ways. First is the whole headlight unit is replaced with one designed for the HID bulbs and DOT certified. The second is to have the OEM unit inspected to confirm it meets ECE R99 requirements. HID lights become more and more inefficient as they age and therefore require more and more voltage to operate as specified. Some HID bulbs produce 70% less visible light after only 10k hours of operation and usually need to be replaced well before their advertised lifespan. HID lights covert only 25% of the input power to light. Thirty percent of the power a HID consumes to produce light is wasted to produce infrared light which is not visible to the human eye. HID lights emit a significant amount of UV radiation that can degrade headlight housings and cause eye injury if not filtered properly by the bulb's glass encasement. HID lights need a warmup period to operate at full output. HID lights display discoloration as they age. HID lights contain toxic materials like mercury vapor.

OTOH, LED lights last five times as long as a HID light and most last 50k hours or more. LED lights are a direct replacement for OEM bulbs with no ballasts required. LED lights are the most energy efficient lighting technology available and nothing comes close to their efficiency ratings and operate much cooler than other type of lights at the same lumen output. LED headlights only produce light in the visible spectrum and don't waste energy producing light that is invisible to humans. LED lights produce its full lumen output instantly with no wait time needed like HID lights. LED lights convert 50% of the input power to visible light.

There is a reason new vehicles are almost exclusively using LED headlights. LED lights, in general, are far and away the best technology for lighting across the board.
 






Yes, thousands of mis aligned cheap ass lights that blind oncoming driver's. Agreed.
so misinformed, most are new cars in last 5 years.

unless you are in the deep south where the streets are not illuminated, then you'll be lucky if ppl are polite enough to dim their brights, speaking from plenty of experience, even then, the brightest lights are new cars, not 20 year old explorers.
 






Yes, thousands of mis aligned cheap ass lights that blind oncoming driver's. Agreed.
Is this danger more than offset by the danger of people driving halogen lighted vehicles that give them the forward vision of a mole? In my area the worst offenders are the new vehicles with LED lights far, far more than older vehicles with LED bulbs.
 






Yes, thousands of mis aligned cheap ass lights that blind oncoming driver's. Agreed.
Yep, at least HID's are center aligned and still 360 degrees, not to mention available in non-blue 4300K and 5000K.

Bulb_Type_Comparison1.png


Old technology, comparable to a fax machine,
Hardly. Fax would be sealed beam.
they don't provide clean distortion free illumination like a LED.
The opposite actually. Halogen fixture optics work better with a round vs flat light source.
 






The bulbs you link to is a conversion system and not a single bulb direct replacement like an LED bulb. The ballasts needs to be mounted securely to make the installation safe and reliable.
Like it's hard to zip tie down the ballast? Took me maybe 30 seconds longer to install vs self contained bulbs.
Also, HID systems are only legal in two ways. First is the whole headlight unit is replaced with one designed for the HID bulbs and DOT certified.
The exact same applies to aftermarket LED retrofits! and DOT does not certify anything, manufactures have to self certify that their product meets DOT requirements and NO LED or HID's retrofits meet DOT requirements which is why manufactures like Philips, Sylvania, and GE DO NOT MAKE ANY put "Off-Road/Fog Use only on the ones they make. Philips or GE does make a legit sealed beam LED replacement fixture but it costs around $150 and is high-glare blue 6000K/6500K.
HID lights become more and more inefficient as they age and therefore require more and more voltage to operate as specified. Some HID bulbs produce 70% less visible light after only 10k hours of operation and usually need to be replaced well before their advertised lifespan.
At $7.50 per bulb I'm not worried even if they needed yearly replacement.

The #1 reason I pick HID over LED right now is the lack of availability of non-blue (5000K or less) LED's. I can get HID in 4300K and 5000K, LED's appear to only be available in 6000K and 6500K which are too blue and cause tons of glare.

To wrap up. Not all LED headlights are blinding. If you use them then do your homework when choosing a bulb.

All LED's are blinding because all LED's are over 5000K which make them blue and blue light causes blinding glare in human eyes.
 






Like it's hard to zip tie down the ballast? Took me maybe 30 seconds longer to install vs self contained bulbs.

The exact same applies to aftermarket LED retrofits! and DOT does not certify anything, manufactures have to self certify that their product meets DOT requirements and NO LED or HID's retrofits meet DOT requirements which is why manufactures like Philips, Sylivania, and GE DO NOT MAKE ANY. Philips does make one for FOG LIGHTS but that's it and GE does make a legit sealed beam LED replacement fixture.

At $7.50 per bulb I'm not worried even if they needed yearly replacement.
You lost the argument. HID is no match for LED. It isn't even close. You ignored most the points I brought up. Care to address them too? If you want to do a comparison for H13 bulbs try the one below and get back to me with the results. Spoiler alert. It is a perfect match because I have compared them IRL. I am sure you could have found an LED version to perfectly match the halogen and HID bulbs you presented but this wouldn't leave you with an argument to make. The irony is you are shilling for illegal HID lights and then lambast others for using LED lights. Also, my LEDs cost $33 and last 5x-10x longer and keep the same brightness and color. I think I am financially ahead on the choice to use LEDs over HID and I have no maintenance issues too.

Edit: The left LED is what I use and the bottom is a standard H13 halogen bulb. There is no discernible difference between the LED and filament placement between them.

H13 Halogen.jpg
H13 LED.jpg
 






You lost the argument. HID is no match for LED. It isn't even close. You ignored most the points I brought up. Care to address them too? If you want to do a comparison for H13 bulbs try the one below and get back to me with the results. Spoiler alert. It is a perfect match because I have compared them IRL. I am sure you could have found an LED version to perfectly match the halogen and HID bulbs you presented but this wouldn't leave you with an argument to make. The irony is you are shilling for illegal HID lights and then lambast others for using LED lights. Also, my LEDs cost $33 and last 5x-10x longer and keep the same brightness and color. I think I am financially ahead on the choice to use LEDs over HID and I have no maintenance issues too.

Edit: The left LED is what I use and the bottom is a standard H13 halogen bulb. There is no discernible difference between the LED and filament placement between them.

View attachment 438214View attachment 438213
Apples and oranges. I NEVER BROUGHT UP DUAL-FILAMENT BULBS AS OUR VEHICLES DO NOT USE THEM.

Yes there is a huge difference, the filament puts out light 360 degrees around the filament, the LED only puts out on each side so maybe 270 degrees total? How do you address the issue shown in the far right image? Even the one you posted will have this issue.

Funny you pick a blue halogen. More on blue light coming tomorrow as that is my main issue with any alternative lighting.
 






There is a reason new vehicles are almost exclusively using LED headlights.
You're right, there is, MONEY!

They offer high profit margins on a consumable product for the dealers since they're monopolized to where you can only buy a new unit from the dealer. No more going to AutoZone or Walmart when your headlight goes out, nope, gotta go to the dealer and get a new $850 headlamp assembly! and that's even if they have it in stock! I have seen many late model (1-3 years old) vehicles with a LED headlight or even a LED brake/tail light out. I wonder how many tickets they'll get while they're waiting months for the dealer to obtain a new assembly.
 






Apples and oranges. I NEVER BROUGHT UP DUAL-FILAMENT BULBS AS OUR VEHICLES DO NOT USE THEM.

Yes there is a huge difference, the filament puts out light 360 degrees around the filament, the LED only puts out on each side so maybe 270 degrees total? While the issue you mentioned about the 3rd image can be addressed by getting a better brand how do you address the issue shown in the far right 4th image? Even the one you posted will have this issue.
The bulb I use doesn't have any issues. As do many, many others and it matters not if the bulbs are dual filament or single. Have you tested any properly designed LED headlights yourself? I have and they deliver a beam pattern like OEM bulbs. If the LED bulbs I use were as terrible as you claim I would be flashed constantly by oncoming traffic which has never happened with the bulbs I use or those in my wife's Edge.
I know of a way to fix that issue but I don't think anyone has built any yet. Know them fancy clear home LED bulbs with the visible LED filament? Make them using that type instead of soldered to a board then use some kind of liquid filling to assist with heat dissipation.

Funny you pick a blue halogen. More on blue light coming tomorrow as that is my main issue with any alternative lighting.
I suggest you do some research on YouTube. Plenty of channels have done the hard, expensive work of testing beam patterns in headlight housings designed for nearly every type of headlight bulb. You are making assumptions that aren't supported by the empirical evidence.

It doesn't matter whether a bulb is blue halogen or not. The filaments are in the same location. You are getting caught up on irrelevant details.
 






You're right, there is, MONEY!

They offer high profit margins on a consumable product for the dealers since they're monopolized to where you can only buy a new unit from the dealer. No more going to AutoZone or Walmart when your headlight goes out, nope, gotta go to the dealer and get a new $850 headlamp assembly! and that's even if they have it in stock! I have seen many late model (1-3 years old) vehicles with a LED headlight or even a LED brake/tail light out. I wonder how many tickets they'll get while they're waiting months for the dealer to obtain a new assembly.
They offer LEDs because they work better and are what people want to have in a new car they purchase. The life of LED headlights now extend from 50k-100k hours. A 50k lifespan means a LED bulb will last 34 years if a person manages to drive four hours a day, every day in the dark. The overwhelming majority of people drive way, way less than four hours a day period. Let alone when it is night time. I don't see how this type of longevity provides big maintenance profits to vehicle manufacturers. Besides, if there is big money to be made from replacement LED headlights then the aftermarket will be happy to fill the gaps the manufacturers have created at lower prices. There are laws that prevent monopolies regarding the manufacture and sale of auto parts and maintenance items.
 












silly question, how does a 9012 even fit when IIRC spec is 9006?
I think one of the tabs on the 9012 bulb has to be ground down to fit in a 9006 housing. I am not sure why a person would want to do this.
 






silly question, how does a 9012 even fit when IIRC spec is 9006?
9011-9012_trimming-1-jpg.jpg

I am not sure why a person would want to do this.

Because 9006 bulbs are 1,000 lumen each and 9012 bulbs are 1,870 lumen each.
That is a 870 lumen increase per bulb for a total low beam output increase of 1,740 lumen.
Combined 9006 total lumen: 2,000
Combined 9012 total lumen: 3,740

Gained low beam lumen: 1,740

I'd suggest anyone doing this also upgrade their high beams while they're at it (9005 to 9011).
9005 bulbs are 1,700 lumen each and 9011 bulbs are 2,350 lumen each.
That is a 650 lumen increase per bulb for a total high beam output increase of 1,300 lumen.
Combined 9005 total lumen: 3,400
Combined 9011 total lumen: 4,700

Gained high beam lumen: 1,300

Since our vehicles do not shut off the low beams when you turn the high beams on here are the totals.
Combined 9006+9005 total lumen: 5,400
Combined 9012+9011 total lumen: 8,440

Gained lumen by complete upgrade: 3,040
 






IMO, it isn't so much the color as it is the lumens.

LMAO, Science says otherwise...

Dangerous, Illegal, Blue Headlight Bulbs

For the purposes of this article “blue” shall be defined as a LED Lamp OR HID Lamp OR Coated Halogen Lamp with a color temperature greater than 5000K.

The vast majority of automotive LED’s currently being sold (including most OEM) are 6500K.

What's All The Fuss?


Various companies and individuals are selling blue headlamp bulbs. There are lots of spurious claims made for these bulbs. They're falsely advertised as an upgrade and there are seemingly endless amounts of pseudoscience aimed at enticing buyers who want better performance from their headlamps. In fact, these bulbs reduce headlamp performance while increasing dangerous glare.

How and why are blue bulbs dangerous?

Many of them degrade roadway safety, both yours and other drivers'. Here are the nuts and bolts of why blue LED bulbs are a bad idea:

White light is made up of every color of light mixed together. But the colors are not all present in equal amounts. The output spectrum of filament bulbs, including halogen headlamp bulbs, includes a great deal of red, orange, yellow and green light, but very little blue or violet light.

Blue and violet are the shortest wavelength/highest frequency colors of visible light, and, as such, they scatter the most readily. This is why the sky is blue rather than any other color from the sun's white output spectrum. Blue light doesn't just scatter most readily in the sky, but also in the eye. To observe this effect, try this informal experiment: Next time you see a dark blue storefront sign or a row of blue airport runway landing lights after dark, notice how blurry the edges of the sign or landing light appears compared to adjacent lights or signs of different colors. Decades ago, hot rodders would install "blue dots" in their cars' tail lamps. These small bits of blue glass cause the tail lamps to appear not red with a blue dot in the center, but rather pinkish-purple, because the observer’s eye easily focuses on the red but have trouble with the blue, which remains out of focus and appears to tint the entire area of the red light.


How can there be more glare just by changing the color?

Informal tests by the US Department of Transportation's Office of Crash Avoidance Standards found that a standard-wattage 9004-type blue headlamp bulb reduced the road lighting ability of a standard headlamp by 67%, and increased glare for oncoming and proceeding traffic by 33%. This apparent contradiction arises because of the way the human eye handles light of different colors. The short-wavelength colors (blue, indigo and violet) are very difficult for our eyes to process and focus on.

Compared to white/warm bulbs, Blue headlight bulbs are able to produce more glare with less light because of the difference between the "signal image", which is what an observer sees when looking at an illuminated headlamp, and the "beam pattern", which is the light viewed from behind the headlamp facing forward, as by the driver of a vehicle. In order for headlamp light to be used by the driver, the light must travel forward from the headlamp to an object, bounce off the object and return to the driver's eyes. As light travels through the atmosphere, it spreads and diffuses according to the Inverse Square Law: The intensity drops as 1⁄(distance)2. Consider a reference point, say, 10 meters away from your eyes. An object at this distance will be lit to a certain level (let's call it the reference level) by your car's headlamps. An object at twice this distance (20 meters) will be lit not to 1⁄2 the reference level, but to 1⁄4 the level—that is, (1⁄2)2. An object located 3 times the reference distance away (30 meters) will be lit to (1⁄3)2 or 1⁄9 the reference level. An object located 10 times as far away (100 meters) will be lit to (1⁄10)2 or 1⁄100 the reference level, and so on. And then this loss is redoubled because the light must travel back to the observer's eyes.

On the other hand, light travels directly from the headlamp to the eyes of the oncoming observer, so the "back to the driver's eyes" redoubling of the Inverse Square law does not take place, and the result is disproportionately more glare.

Does the scattering tendency of blue light affect headlamp performance and road safety in other ways?


Yes, in two ways:

Because blue light scatters very readily in the human eye, casting a beam that's blue-tinted by any amount in a rainy, foggy or snowy environment causes increased perceived back glare for the driver of a car equipped with blue headlamp bulbs.

Also, blue light per se creates increased glare for oncoming traffic. That's because blue light does not trigger a strong pupil-closing response in human eyes. It is yellow light that stimulates the human eye most strongly to constrict the pupil. Due to the comparatively weak pupil response to blue light, the human eye is very glare-sensitive to a blue signal image. With the lack of yellow light produced by common 6500K LED’s and being prevented from reaching the observer's eyes, the pupils remain open wider than they should, and the eyes are hit with a blast of difficult-to-process blue light.


Isn't the same amount of blue light reaching the observer's eyes whether or not the lamp is blue vs white?

Although the same amount of blue is emitted by a LED bulb whether it's 5000K or 6500K, the remainder of the output spectrum—consisting largely of yellow light—triggers a pupil-closing response in the eyes of oncoming traffic, helping to reduce the short and long term effects of headlamp glare. This glare-protection response is severely compromised when the oncoming signal image is blue.

What about real Xenon headlamps that appear blue from the factory?

Genuine arc-discharge (also called metal-halide HID) headlamps run with a very purplish-white character similar to an electronic photoflash, because the same technology is at work—an electrical arc jumping through an atmosphere of Xenon gas. But despite the purplish appearance, this light is actually white with a discrete blue component. That is, most of the light from a Xenon headlamp is white (4300K-5000K), and there is also some blue due to the edges of the white arc being blue.

The emerging understanding is that there may be not only a split between the glare-sensitive and non-glare-sensitive amongst the populace, but also among those particularly sensitive to blue, violet and/or near-UV light, and those not particularly sensitive to these wavelengths—with these sensitivities NOT necessarily being linked! This helps explain why some find High Intensity Discharge headlamps menacingly painful and consider them hazardous to share the road with, while others consider them no problem at all.

Researchers are currently working on tweaking the output spectrum of automotive HIDs to eliminate the useless-for-seeing spike in the high blue which causes this reaction in blue-sensitive individuals.

The blue signal images from HID and from 6500K LED lamps arise from two wholly separate phenomena, and therefore can't be directly compared. The main thing is to keep in mind that the blue signal image of an HID headlamp is a throwaway byproduct of a light source that also emits a great deal of white light, while the blue signal image of a 6500K LED lamp is the actual output of the lamp.

Are these blue bulbs illegal?

US, Canadian, European and Japanese regulations all call for "white" light. There is no one specific light color that is defined as "white" light; rather, there is a large range of output spectra that are considered "white", and the "white" light is permitted to exhibit visible tints of blue, yellow, green, orange or red. Various regulatory bodies are considering narrowing the "white" standard so that it is less permissive of blue tinting. Such has been the spread of blue headlamp bulbs that many police agencies have purchased in-field beam color testers—they use these on headlamps that look too blue to be legally considered "white".


What about LED headlight bulbs that I found at a local auto parts store, or on the internet? They're sold as being "DOT Approved". Are these legal?


Probably not. There's no such thing as "DOT approved". DOT does not "approve" products as the European regulatory body does. Rather, the manufacturer of an item of motor vehicle equipment is legally obligated to self-certify that their product complies with all applicable regulations. For some items of equipment, such as headlamp bulbs, the certification takes the form of a "DOT" marking on the bulb base. However, there is no legal obligation for the manufacturer to submit their product for government testing before applying the marking, and many companies go ahead and apply the marking even to bulbs that do not comply with the law (especially non-name brands). The relevant regulations (US Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard 108, Canadian Motor Vehicle Safety Standards 108 and 108.1, and ECE Regulations 8, 20, 37, 98, 99, 112 and 113 all call for "white" light, defined as discussed above, so the statement of DOT compliance itself is false for a bulb that emits a light color obviously different from "white".

Why is there even a market for bulbs like this, if they're so illegal and unsafe?

Many motorists have been confused by marketing claims for the 6500K LED bulbs, which falsely and incorrectly equate the blue bulbs' performance with the very expensive arc-discharge ("Xenon") headlamps found on top-line luxury cars. They have been led to believe that by replacing their car's headlamp bulbs with the blue bulbs, their headlamps' performance will be increased. In fact, quite the opposite is true; their headlamps' performance is decreased by the use of blue bulbs.

There is psychology at work in the marketplace, as well. Many of these blue bulbs are sold at very high prices in extremely attractive packaging. It is well known to marketers that the motorist who pays $35 or $45 or even $85 for a set of "special high performance" bulbs will probably perceive a performance improvement even if there is actually none.

Some motorists believe that the blue light makes their car look "cool". This would fall into the same category as the dark plastic headlamp and tail lamp covers that are snapped-up by certain drivers for their appearance "enhancement" value, despite the fact that these covers, like the blue bulbs, are illegal and dangerous.
 






Yep, at least HID's are aligned.

View attachment 438199


Hardly. Fax would be Halogen, maybe even sealed beam.

The opposite actually. Halogen fixture optics work better with a round vs flat light source.
Another example of using garbage to mislead the average vehicle owner. The LEDs you choose are of a design 15 years old, notto design standards, etc. These are the "less that 10$ a pair frequently found for sale.

You won't use good LEDs that via testing in last 5 years are shown to be vastly superior in forward light illumination becauase your bias against them has deeper roots.
 






Dangerous, Illegal, Blue Headlight Bulbs

For the purposes of this article “blue” shall be defined as a LED Lamp OR HID Lamp OR Coated Halogen Lamp with a color temperature greater than 5000K.

The vast majority of automotive LED’s currently being sold (including most OEM) are 6500K.
If you are cutting and pasting from a web page you should give us the link.
 



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I'm thinking of installing an Acetylene Lamp headlight in my Mounty.

Does anyone know how to get the most brightness from it?

Which of the below would you pick for best results? I have so many questions...

503949.jpg

2929707l.jpg
 






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