Tranny noise! Bad bearing??

[Big Ed 1]

Interesting thread. I will be watching.
Reading thru your thread, I don't think anyone said anything, so, they do make a yellow LOCTITE #577, says it is for pipe thread.
I never used yellow. But there is yellow. I don't see why blue wouldn't be OK to use.

Whoops, we couldn't find that.

Click on the whoops, it works for me, don't know why it says whoops?)

 

[DAZ97XLT]

I FINALLY got my bearing kit!!!!!!!!!
It took forever but it's here and I'm hoping I can finally get this axle finished!
The only thing is the spider gears! They have shims right? The kit doesn't come with "spider gear shims" though so is that something I need to get???
I've asked about this and haven't gotten a response....

The kit does come with a shim pack for the pinion and carrier and I even messaged the seller and they said there's no shims for the spider gears in the kit.... Could they be mistaken???

Any info about this???

 

[DAZ97XLT]

Interesting thread. I will be watching.
Reading thru your thread, I don't think anyone said anything, so, they do make a yellow LOCTITE #577, says it is for pipe thread.
I never used yellow. But there is yellow. I don't see why blue wouldn't be OK to use.

Whoops, we couldn't find that.

Click on the whoops, it works for me, don't know why it says whoops?)

Well, the bearing kit I just got comes with a small pouch of the red stuff so that's what I'll be using on the ring bolts(I'm assuming that's what it's for)!
I might use blue on the pin bolt though I'm not sure...

 

[JK080]

No shims for the spider gears, just reinstall them. I have never had to replace them unless they are damaged.

 

[Big Ed 1]

Well, the bearing kit I just got comes with a small pouch of the red stuff so that's what I'll be using on the ring bolts(I'm assuming that's what it's for)!
I might use blue on the pin bolt though I'm not sure...

You bought a Axle bearing kit? Right? Rear axle bearing kits focus on the axle bearings and seals.
A Master overhaul kit would /should come with the spider gear shims.
I guess the red stuff is Loctite? I think blue is OK too, though not sure.

 

[Big Ed 1]

Hmmm, going back and reading I see that they listed the kit as a Master kit.
I wonder if there is a Master overhaul kits for differentials? And yours is a Master kit for the axle?
Did you ask if they just sell the pinion shims?
Well, I will continue just watching.
Good luck.

 

[wollimann]

The kit does come with a shim pack for the pinion and carrier and I even messaged the seller and they said there's no shims for the spider gears in the kit.... Could they be mistaken???

That's not a mistake, 8.8 master kit never comes with spiders and shims.
Spidergears+their 2 shims are "married", those parts must ordered seperately.

Traction-Lock

Ford 8.8 Traclok Internal Spider Gear Kit 31 Spline ZIKF8.8-T/L-31​

https://cdn1.bigcommerce.com/server2500/00ifks2/products/458/images/8778/F8.8__18449.1493230255.1280.1280.jpg?c=2

and open differentials has different parts.
Use the red thread locker for the bolts as recommended.

 

[410Fortune]

1997 yes that is your speed sensor in the transfer case. Vss

No cable in 97, last year of the speedo cable was 1994. They used the same sensor and simply plugged the port for the cable

I had also mentioned at the beginning of this thread that the speedometer doesn't work and I found this on the tc but I don't see a speedo cable anywhere under the vehicle! The wires to the broken connector were there and I disconnected them to remove the tc so is it not supposed to have a speedo cable??? Is that connector a speed sensor? Maybe bad contacts because it's saturated with oil!View attachment 465754

View attachment 465755


btw I'm finding that this speed sensor is advertised for an automatic transmission not a transfer case.... Finding parts can be tricky some times!

Rwd vss is in the tailhousing of the trans
4wd vss in the tailhousing of the t case

You can usually find vehicle speed sensor listed in electrical section,
Like at rockauto

 

[DAZ97XLT]

Hmmm, going back and reading I see that they listed the kit as a Master kit.
I wonder if there is a Master overhaul kits for differentials? And yours is a Master kit for the axle?
Did you ask if they just sell the pinion shims?
Well, I will continue just watching.
Good luck.

I honestly think it's more marketing/advertising BS.... I personally think that if it was a "Master" installation kit it should have the axle shaft bearings, seals and also the spider gear shims!
I guess it also depends on your definition of what a "master kit" is...

Edit: They definitely do have "master kits" for differentials but it really depends on the seller and how they're advertising the kit!
They may list a kit that shouldn't be classified as master kit but they'll list it as such anyway for whatever reason so it's really up to you to look through the description and images they provide to determine whether what they're selling is actually what they claim it is! Too many sellers like to post pictures of different items on their listing..... False advertising!
For example I was just looking up a carburetor for my 79' Dodge van and found an exact replacement (according to the picture) but after contacting the seller they clarified that the image in the listing isn't of the actual carburetor I'd be purchasing!!!! So why even post a picture of a different item?!?! I mean it's not like they can't spend the extra time to take a picture of the actual item and use that in the listing or do an internet search of the appropriate item.... It's just lazy I think....

 

[DAZ97XLT]

That's not a mistake, 8.8 master kit never comes with spiders and shims.
Spidergears+their 2 shims are "married", those parts must ordered seperately.

Traction-Lock
View attachment 465835

Ford 8.8 Traclok Internal Spider Gear Kit 31 Spline ZIKF8.8-T/L-31​

https://cdn1.bigcommerce.com/server2500/00ifks2/products/458/images/8778/F8.8__18449.1493230255.1280.1280.jpg?c=2

and open differentials has different parts.
Use the red thread locker for the bolts as recommended.

My diff is open and the gears look good!
Other than to clean parts do I even need to take the carrier apart???
I kinda wanna take it apart to clean all the parts and then I guess it would be a good idea to replace the old ring gear bolts with the one's in the kit...
I know to mark the gears with a paint pen so they go back in the same configuration.....
I've been waiting weeks to get all my parts and finish this axle and aside from the spider gears I have everything I need to assemble it!
So my understanding of the spider gear shims is that since I have an open diff I'd have to buy the gears because the shims are married to the gears...
I don't see a reason to replace them since they look good so I'm just going to go ahead and start assembly and then move on to the transfer case!

 

[safehaven]

The gear teeth look good..

 

[DAZ97XLT]

This shim thing is really throwing me off!
I'm trying to get all my axle parts clean and ready to install and I'm seeing and not seeing things here that are worrying me!!!
There is a picture to refer to for the following...
First off when I took the axle apart there was one "shim" on each side of the carrier but they are thick, cast looking shims(top of the picture)! None of the shims in the kit looks similar! The kit comes with a couple of 'two piece' shims(bottom of the picture )that go together and a bunch of paper thin shims(center of picture)... I'd have to stack most of these new shims from the kit to get the same thickness of the original shims!
Is any of this right???
Am I still supposed to use the thick cast shims that were already there with some of the new shims? I'd pretty much have to stack all the new shims together to get the same thickness of the cast ones! I'm just calling them cast because that's what they look like, not sure if they are....

 

[DAZ97XLT]

I'm also seeing the bolts in the kit have smaller heads on them then the original bolts which probably doesn't matter right?

I'm also NOT seeing this "shim" or what I think may be a thrust washer that isn't included in the kit!

 

[JK080]

I would reuse the original shims in the original location. 9 or of 10 times it will be correct. I only use the shims in the kit when the original ones are missing or incorrect, mainly due to someone being there before.
I would reuse the original bolts for the ring gear too, there was no reason to replace them in the first place. Clocking the ring gear on the carrier makes no difference either but it is good your being cautious.
The washer in the picture that not in your kit is just for oil control, it helps to keep oil around the front bearing and serves no purpose in end play. Just reuse it.

 

[DAZ97XLT]

I would reuse the original shims in the original location. 9 or of 10 times it will be correct. I only use the shims in the kit when the original ones are missing or incorrect, mainly due to someone being there before.
I would reuse the original bolts for the ring gear too, there was no reason to replace them in the first place. Clocking the ring gear on the carrier makes no difference either but it is good your being cautious.
The washer in the picture that not in your kit is just for oil control, it helps to keep oil around the front bearing and serves no purpose in end play. Just reuse it.

I figured it out! I feel like replacing those bolts would've been a downgrade anyway... All I really wanted to do was disassemble it to make sure there's no debris that's all...

Well, I got the axle put together and it's much much better than it was. Since I didn't have a dial indicator when I took it apart I can't really say what the before and after difference is but I ended up getting the lash down to .008 and I'm happy with that... There is a video on YouTube of the play before working on it... I posted that somewhere in this thread...
I will admit it though that I didn't get the gear pattern I wanted and that's due to the lack of pinion shims... I did get the teeth centered between the heel and toe but I would've liked to have added a shim or two to the large pinion bearing to get the pattern a bit closer to the valley of the ring gear but I don't have the fancy bearing removal tool and didn't realize that I should've placed a shim on the pinion shaft before pressing the larger bearing!!! What I did was play with the carrier shims and got the assembly over towards the passenger side as far as possible to compensate for that and luckily it worked out!
I now realize that the process to installing the pinion bearings and shims is a bit more involved than what I'm equipped for but nevertheless I got it done!!!
Tools I'm lacking is a nice bearing removal tool and a hefty torque wrench!!! When I took the old bearings off I destroyed them and I didn't see it had a shim anywhere so that's how I put it back together and by the time I was installing the pinion shaft it was too late to add shims!
So apparently the process to installing the pinion is to "preload the bearings without a sleeve and then if using a crush sleeve to crush that down using between 250 to 400ft lbs of torque?!?! That wasn't going to happen! My torque wrench only goes up to 150 and I would have to borrow one from AutoZone or something.... Luckily I had the spacer kit that eliminates that sleeve and I was able to get the pinion installed.... After getting the correct spacing comes the adjusting of the gears with shims to get the correct teeth pattern and I didn't know that if I needed to get the pinion closer to the ring I'd have to remove the pinion assembly after installing it, remove the large bearing with a fancy tool(which I don't have which is the reason I destroyed them when I removed them), add shims and then press the bearing on the shaft again and then assemble, read the pattern and then do the whole thing over again if removing or adding shims is required! That process alone might have to happen multiple times and could take all day or multiple days but again I didn't have the bearing tool to do that!
One issue I had was the pinion nut started cutting into the flange and it just kept getting worse and worse! I think I installed and removed that pinion assembly around 7 or 8 times and by the time I was done with the process I would've had to add a washer or get a new flange and nut!
I admit I did make some mistakes but that's how I learn!
Sorry I didn't get a picture of the teeth pattern but that was a stressful day and I didn't want to deal with pictures or video....
Overall for being my first time working on an axle and having limited tools and money I successfully replaced the bearings and assembled it!!!
It's much better than it was before and the vehicle is drivable so..... SUCCESS!...

Now I have to deal with the front axle! This whole drivetrain was worked over!

 

[C420sailor]

For setting pinion nut torque with a crush sleeve, you really need what’s called a ‘torque multiplier’. It’s basically a planetary gearset with a handle on the end. Proto makes good ones. Mine provides 3.3:1 ratio up to 750ft*lbs of output torque.

Without one of these, crushing a sleeve accurately is difficult, borderline impossible.

They can be found used on eBay and such. Definitely a specialty tool, but if you deal with big torque specs now and then, it’s worth it.

Hopefully the pinion/ring pattern isn’t too far off…that’ll cause accelerated wear and other problems. Too much/little backlash can cause damage and driveability issues and noises, and if it’s really out of whack you will join the brotherhood of expensive sounds. Setting up a differential is a pain, but for a reason.

 

[DAZ97XLT]

For setting pinion nut torque with a crush sleeve, you really need what’s called a ‘torque multiplier’. It’s basically a planetary gearset with a handle on the end. Proto makes good ones. Mine provides 3.3:1 ratio up to 750ft*lbs of output torque.

Without one of these, crushing a sleeve accurately is difficult, borderline impossible.

They can be found used on eBay and such. Definitely a specialty tool, but if you deal with big torque specs now and then, it’s worth it.

Hopefully the pinion/ring pattern isn’t too far off…that’ll cause accelerated wear and other problems. Too much/little backlash can cause damage and driveability issues and noises, and if it’s really out of whack you will join the brotherhood of expensive sounds. Setting up a differential is a pain, but for a reason.

I'll be working on every vehicle I own and maybe some others for the rest of my life, as long as I'm able too, so eventually I'm sure I'll need that torque multiplier tool!
That's good to know! Thanks!
There was no way with what I have!

Yeah I know not getting the ring and pinion dialed in will cause accelerated wear and other issues sooner than later but I got it pretty close and I really just needed this vehicle drivable! I live 40 miles from town and my other vehicle is kind of on the brink so... If I can get at least a year out of that axle it'll be good enough! I'll be saving$$ in anticipation of either getting another axle from the junkyard or I'll just pay extra and get a new set of gears!
I might not even keep this Explorer anyway!

 

[C420sailor]

It’ll go much faster the next time you do them, if you need to do them again.

I got new OEM gears for mine, and the original pinion shims were dead on. I had to shim the carrier a bit, just for bearing preload—new carrier bearings must have been slightly narrower. But generally, if you use the same exact gears or install identical OEM gears, you should be able to use original shims. If you go aftermarket, all bets are off