V8 Waterpump stud broke off into timing cover

How screwed am I? What do you all suggest. The stud broke off right behind the pump, flush with the cover. I *might* be able to fit a right angle drill in there (which I don't have.. grr), or does anyone have other suggestions.

Help!

Some pics of what I'm dealing with:

Why is it always a debacle!!

I wouldn't screw with it-
Time to remove the timing cover. See, Im worried you'll just snap it off again deeper in. You need to get some pb blaster into the block threads--



if you remove the timing cover you can get a real good grip on that bolt.

That's what I was afraid of hearing

Should I replace the chain while I'm in there?

So there is good, and bad.

I was able to get the harmonic balancer and every timing cover bolt out super easy. However, the original busted bolt is rusted to the timing cover, meaning I can't even crow-bar this thing out. I hope that means the threads into the block are good, but I think at this point I have no choice but to drill a little....

Always looking for suggestions...

No, you cannot pry on the timing cover at all.

If you do ding up the cover I got you covered. Get out the drill-

You might try to turn the remaining threads in a bit and back to help break the corrosion.

Thanks for helping me through this!

I'm not having much luck with the drill on this bolt - it must be hardened (and therefore brittle)...

I wish I could just get a large bit in there, but there isn't enough room even with my newly purchased right angle adapter.

But it looks like I won't be finishing this up today.

just to be sure-you do have the bottom 4 oil pan bolts loose? there should be a way of getting some twist to the cover-

Oh yea, they're loose. And I was able to move the cover, it's just pinched on that one bolt.

I think I'm just going to have to destroy the cover to get it off, pray that I can get the bolt out of the block, and take you up on your chrome cover.... I sent you a PM.

The cover is cheap compared to having that bolt broken off so you can't remove it from the block. I've seen these where the engine had to be pulled. Once the cover is out, if there is resistance to the broken bolt coming out, hit it with some heat. A propane torch works wonders. As it cools, spray penetrating oil on it liberally, It will get sucked in as it cools. Let it sit for a half an hour and see if the bolt comes out. If not, hit it with some heat again. Try and remove the bolt when hot. It should come right out. Just don't try and twist it with the bolt cherry red. That won't work. If all the fails, you have no other choice but to drill and either retap to a larger bolt or install a thread insert. Like I mentioned, I've seen these where the engine had to be pulled so the block could be set up on a drill press to properly locate and drill the broken bolt.

Cobraguy said:

The cover is cheap compared to having that bolt broken off so you can't remove it from the block...

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So here's my new plan:

Dremel/Drill out the cover around the bolt, and remove the cover. The bolt is literally fused to the old cover. JTSmith has already dropped a new one in the mail for me, although they are available aftermarket from RockAuto.

How hot can you go on the propane?

My biggest worry is metal shavings going down into the oil pan... I guess I'll try and flush it out with a few gallons of diesel.

Success!

The timing cover is out, the bolt is removed. Thanks for all the tips. Now I just need to cleanup the clusterf$^k of aluminum shavings that got over EVERYTHING, and down into my oil pan.

Timing cover carnage:


Bolt after timing cover removed:


The bolt was pretty bent!


I wonder when it bent. Could it have been bent on installation at Ford back in 1997? Did it bend when I initially tried to remove it? That, and the massive amount of rust, must have been why the cover wouldn't come off after the bolthead snapped, because those threads are quite clean.

Either the bolt wasn't stuck in the block too bad, or Cobra guy's suggestion of heating it hot with propane and then squirting PB into the threads as it cooled was dynamite, because a quick and easy turn of some vice-grips and the bolt came right out, zero issues. I had the propane on it for about 3 minutes. That PB sure smokes like mad when sprayed on hot steel!

Here's a pic of my current timing chain after 161,000 miles. About 3/8-1/2" of slack on the passenger side.


I ordered a complete, new, double-roller timing kit from Rockauto made by Cloyes, I couldn't get it local as I previously thought. It, and JT's bling bling timing cover should be here Monday or Tuesday.

Inside of the timing cover, is all that sludge normal?



I'm worried about these shavings now... Time to clean.

Good choice on the timing kit. It was the thing that finally failed on me unexpectedly in a high mileage crown vic 5.0 (250Kish miles).

From my old days in the machine shop.
If you have access to a wire welder.
Weld a washer to the broken bolt ( it's a little tricky holding the washer where you need it when working on a vertical surface), if you are careful it will work on bolts that have broken off flush or are protruding a little. Then weld a hex nut to the washer. The heat generated helps with extraction. So don't wait for it to cool.
Keep in mind there will be some welding splatter.
So make sure fuel lines are out of the way and watch any greasy areas.

Works about 99% of the time.

That's about how mine looked when I did it last year. A couple of my bolts were quite rusted too, and I'm in North Carolina! I soaked the cover and cleaned it up nice. I also had about the same amount of slack as you. I did find it difficult to slide the new timing set on. I ended up having to use some gentle coercion.

Did you find new bolts? I couldn't find any for that particular year Ford cover/water pump setup. I ended up soaking my bolts in PB and then running them through a die to clean up the threads. They came out pretty good, though I would have preferred to put brand new bolts in. Hopefully I never have to touch it again.

As for the shavings, I saw some sludge in the pan, and had dropped some pieces of the gasket, so I sprayed some cleaner down in there with the drain plug opened, soaked it real good to get a good flow. Then I poured a quart of oil through there too. It should be pretty clean now.

rizzjc said:

...I ended up having to use some gentle coercion....Did you find new bolts...

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The bolts are actually standard 5/16-18 (coarse) about 3 1/4" long. Nothing special here, I just purchased some Grade 8s. They don't have the stud, but it wasn't used for anything. I love this truck, most bolts are metric except for "deep" into the 1960's engine block, which are still standard!

I ran a bottoming tap/thread restorer in all the block holes, they are pristine.

What sort of "Gentle coercion" are we talking about?

V8BoatBuilder said:

The bolts are actually standard 5/16-18 (coarse) about 3 1/4" long. Nothing special here, I just purchased some Grade 8s. They don't have the stud, but it wasn't used for anything. I love this truck, most bolts are metric except for "deep" into the 1960's engine block, which are still standard!

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The ones I needed, I couldn't match up - needed the stud on the ones that I found rusted, I think.

V8BoatBuilder said:

I ran a bottoming tap/thread restorer in all the block holes, they are pristine.

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Yep, I did this too. Had everything nice and clean when I put it back together. I thought I stripped one of the bolts putting it back in, but fortunately realized that the socket had slipped.

V8BoatBuilder said:

What sort of "Gentle coercion" are we talking about?

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I think I got pissed and used a rubber mallet. With the new chain, I just could get it all to slide straight on. It's such an exact fit, that any little tilt of one of the gears, and it wouldn't go. You get one started, and there's not enough slack to get the other on. So I gave up, and "helped it" a little.

Well done in getting that out, I just saw the thread- but would have dremelled it free to get the cover off and welded a bolt to it to get that sucker out!
Still you did well- happens to us all mate- when you need and want a smooth run------It aint gonna happen!
I gotta say- the guys here are great- where else could you get help like this?

BIGHVM said:

Well done in getting that out, I just saw the thread- but would have dremelled it free to get the cover off and welded a bolt to it to get that sucker out!
Still you did well- happens to us all mate- when you need and want a smooth run------It aint gonna happen!
I gotta say- the guys here are great- where else could you get help like this?

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The guys are amazing here, I just got JT's cover in the mail today.

I'm not sure welding a nut on would have helped considering how darn bent that bolt was. It wouldn't have turned in the two inches of timing cover it had to travel through.

I just finished my flush of the pan, I dumped 2 gallons of diesel down the opening using a party cup. I aligned the two crank gears, but need to get a different puller to get them off.

V8BoatBuilder said:

The guys are amazing here, I just got JT's cover in the mail today.

I'm not sure welding a nut on would have helped considering how darn bent that bolt was. It wouldn't have turned in the two inches of timing cover it had to travel through.

I just finished my flush of the pan, I dumped 2 gallons of diesel down the opening using a party cup. I aligned the two crank gears, but need to get a different puller to get them off.

Click to expand...

Yeh,
Probably not the best for your situation, but for those others that may face the dreaded broken bolt problem. Give it a try.