V8 Waterpump stud broke off into timing cover

[CDW6212R]

Good job Aaron.

BTW, how is your truck with the BW4406, from a stop? Do you get any tire spin at all, another words, how quick does the TOD system grab the front shaft? I have everything to do mine now except the gas tank. Regards,

 

[V8BoatBuilder]

Good job Aaron...how is your truck with the BW4406, from a stop?...

Thanks Don! Tomorrow I'm going to try and get the old timing set off, and the new one on. I'll post up how that goes.

As for my 4406, I did the brown wire mod, so normally I'm in 2wd, and can squeal the tires if I try hard. I haven't tried it with the auto 4wd engaged, but the engagement works amazing in light mud or snow. I can feel the front kick in in less than a second after the rear starts to slip.

 

[CDW6212R]

...As for my 4406, I did the brown wire mod, so normally I'm in 2wd, and can squeal the tires if I try hard. I haven't tried it with the auto 4wd engaged, but the engagement works amazing in light mud or snow. I can feel the front kick in in less than a second after the rear starts to slip.

Thanks, I was wondering because Jon has traction issues with his in 2WD, and I'm about to have the same power. I hope the TOD can keep up with the traction, Alex has done well with his 02 Explorer and a supercharger. Regards,

 

[V8BoatBuilder]

So, for those still listening, I'm finally getting back to work on the truck, and have the old timing set out and the new Cloyes double-roller ready to go in. The Cloyes is "adjustable," allowing for stock valve timing or a 4 degree advance or retard, one producing more torque at the expense of HP, the other producing HP at the expense of torque.

I'm interested in more torque, but is this valve timing offset a good idea, or should I just assemble it back with stock valve timing??

 

[Turdle]

Well,
I installed mine 4 advanced. I think you'd want the bottom end grunt.
It's your decision though for sure.

 

[CDW6212R]

I would leave it at zero, OEM is leaning to the low rpm power already. You might gain a hair anyway if there was a lot of stretch in the old chain.

 

[V8BoatBuilder]

Well,
I installed mine 4 advanced. I think you'd want the bottom end grunt.
It's your decision though for sure.

I'd be installing mine 4 degrees advanced as well, for more grunt... Think it's a good idea? Will I gain anything with the stock PCM, etc? Will I chance damaging anything?

Just out of curiosity, are these 302s interference motors with the stock valvetrain?

Here's from the Cloyes website:
http://www.cloyes.com/Portals/10/TechTips/3 keyway instructions.pdf

 

[Turdle]

I'm not 1--% certain, but I would think since an e cam works with no problems you would be safe.

 

[V8BoatBuilder]

JT: Advance it...
Don: Leave it stock...
Me: not sure yet

 

[Turdle]

You never know what's inside until you bite it!!

 

[V8BoatBuilder]

You never know what's inside until you bite it!!

That didn't work out too well for my sister's pet bunny rabbit when she gnawed through an extension cord

But, if the valves won't hit the pistons, then I'm inclined to try it.

 

[CDW6212R]

The stock cams are never very close to valves, don't worry about that. The stock cam I think was really aimed at our rpm range, much better than an HO 302 cam. They both will rev easily past 5000rpm, but the engine flow and valve springs just aren't up for much of that.

I had read and heard long ago that the Explorer lower intake was sized smaller than other GT40's, but now I read that they are identical. I know that the Explorer 302 has the strongest low rpm power of any 302 made. I believe that the great low end is from the Explorer cam, plus a decent torque converter and 1st gearing.

 

[Turdle]

Let's play with desktop dyno and see what happens-
I need the stock cam specs please.

 

[Cobraguy]

You would be foolish to just advance or retard the camshaft without knowing the specs. You could do more harm to your performance than good. You really need to know the specs. You also need to realize that most cams are ground with advance built into the grind. You won't know this unless you actually measure the camshaft. This is not hard, but does require some special tools you may need to buy or borrow.

My suggestion would be if it's a factory cam, install it straight up the way the factory intended it to be. If you want to play around with the cam timing, then that's one thing. But if you want to button it up and call it good, throw it in straight up.

You are also correct...advancing the cam increases bottom end torque at the expense of top end. Retarding the cam is vice versa. But if the cam was originally ground with 4 degrees of advance, and you advance it another 4, then you have 8 degrees of advance and it's too much for just about any engine. So unless you have the specs for the cam (I don't), throw it in straight up.

 

[V8BoatBuilder]

...if it's a factory cam, install it straight up the way the factory intended it to be. If you want to play around with the cam timing, then that's one thing. But if you want to button it up and call it good, throw it in straight up...

I ended up installing it without the advance or retard, and just going with the factory settings. It seemed safer, since changing the timing would have been a royal PITA if the gamble didn't pay off.

 

[CDW6212R]

Exactly, people who race and have fewer accessories, and dig into the engine often, they can deal with the timing chain regularly. For a normal Explorer that is a very big job in the truck. Take your time and eliminate any leaks, that will make the effort a success. Regards,

 

[Turdle]

don't forget the thread sealer on the water pump and accessory bolts--

 

[V8BoatBuilder]

don't forget the thread sealer on the water pump and accessory bolts--

Teflon Paste?

 

[V8BoatBuilder]

Some photo updates:

Timing chains compared. Stock on Left, Cloyes Double Roller on right:

New chain installed:

It was very easy to get the old one off, I used a standard gear puller on the cam gear, and the crank gear slid off. Crank bolt was then removed by putting vice grips on the old chain.

Always a snag! I struggled to get the little hose between the water pump and the oil cooler to fit without it kinking halfway closed, before I realized that the aftermarket replacement had way too much bend in it.

The photo shows:
Top: Original hose section
2nd Down: Random heater hose from Autozone, PN "397" or "14-2565-2 M 61326" that is the correct diameter and has the correct bend in it. Cut to fit!
3rd Down: Napa replacement hose, too much bend
Bottom: Rock Auto replacement hose, too much bend, but a good 1" longer (1/2" on each side) than the Napa part.

Not all "replacement" parts are created equal!

 

[rizzjc]

Yeah, that little stubby hose was a *****. Mine twisted a little, but didn't close off. Figured the heat would "re mold" it.

So, what's the advantage to that timing set you replaced it with? Not that I have ANY intention of going back in there, ever, but just curious.