'03 Mountaineer - "shudder" when turning

[speedball]

New here - sorry if this has been covered. It's an AWD 4.6L. When the vehicle first starts up and I drive it, it runs and turns perfectly with no issues. This lasts for about 20 minutes. After driving it a while it will shudder and shake when I turn the wheels more than 20 degrees or so either way. Going straight it's fine. Turning it acts like a brake, or tire is dragging or like a 4x4 does on dry pavement.

I recently got the Mountaineer so I don't know it's history. I had the transfer case and both the front and rear differential serviced (fluid changed at Jiffy Lube). They said there was no leakage they could see. The fluid change and top off did not help. It still grinds and shudders after it warms up when turning

Any thoughts? Transfer case shot? The reason it's mysterious is that it turns perfectly until it runs/heats up....

Thanks in advance for any thoughts!

 

[fusseli]

I have the same symptoms and FYI- it gets worse over time. Soon it will do it from a cold start and bind worse once warmed up. About 8 months ago mine did it the first time after a 7 hour drive, it's since slowly progressed to where it does it cold. No other noticeable driveability issues than the sound/vibration and needing extra gas pedal to make tight turns. AFIK it's a shot t-case. Blame the previous owners for not rotating their tires every 5k. The t-case is not a "common failure item" otherwise.

 

[speedball]

hmmmm after after reading and searching it sounds like it could be the rear diff clutch packs possibly....or the VC....so many things to go wrong and I am not sure where to start

 

[buckwill]

one of the things happens on ford 4 wheel drive all wheel drive esp if they have iddividual independent suspension front,, is they have constant velocity joints similiar to rzeppa joints in the front
, jacj your front wheels up so that they are clear and free to turn or jack the entire car up,, (better) and engage gears, put it in low gear and turn wheel left and right, i bet u will find that noise is in the cv joint in the front axle, i have seen this oh, um more than 10 times, u hear the same thing in just ready to commit suicide front wheel cars, tryin to crawl home to die,, tat chrrrunch grind crackka, specially when turning, ive had mine lck up,, had to reverse, then straighten wheel ten procede, that tells me its in the cv joint
i bought a truck surplus from ur plant, lake services truck, salt ate it up, looked good on the outside but inside, uggh, ran good while i was evaluattttioning, but oh man,,, every thing i took off had a lil note attacched, dobt stop here sucker bck

 

[dwcopple]

I had similar symptoms. Put Royal Purple 75w140 in the rear diff and it is smooth as butter now!

 

[speedball]

I had similar symptoms. Put Royal Purple 75w140 in the rear diff and it is smooth as butter now!

Ah worth a try! I have no idea what the jiffy lube guys used- probably dish soap!

How much and where do I buy??? Thanks!

 

[speedball]

Ah worth a try! I have no idea what the jiffy lube guys used- probably dish soap!

How much and where do I buy??? Thanks!

Update: I refilled the rear with Royal Purple and added the friction modifier. Took it out for a 30 minute test drive. The rear diff seems to be quieter now but it still shudders and groans in turns after warming up.

Guess it's time to pull the front drive shaft and see if it's the transfer case...

 

[GottaBigBlock]

Update: I refilled the rear with Royal Purple and added the friction modifier. Took it out for a 30 minute test drive. The rear diff seems to be quieter now but it still shudders and groans in turns after warming up.

Guess it's time to pull the front drive shaft and see if it's the transfer case...

Just to cover all bases.......How old are your tires and have you been rotating them properly?.....The reason I am asking is if they are older tires and you don't know if they have been rotated as they should be, the may be of differing diameter and that will overheat the T-case, causing it to stay engaged until it can cool off. My experience with the T-case was when it went bad(About 8k miles after I bought the Mountaineer used) it locked up and stayed that way.

 

[fusseli]

Same, I changed front and rear diff lube and no change in shuddering. I haven't removed the drive shaft to test mine but I'm still pretty sure that's what it is just based on reading so many similar cases with the mounty t-case and abuse of un-rotated tires.

 

[speedball]

Just to cover all bases.......How old are your tires and have you been rotating them properly?.....The reason I am asking is if they are older tires and you don't know if they have been rotated as they should be, the may be of differing diameter and that will overheat the T-case, causing it to stay engaged until it can cool off. My experience with the T-case was when it went bad(About 8k miles after I bought the Mountaineer used) it locked up and stayed that way.

The tires aren't in good shape but they are all the same brand/model and appear to have the same wear. Tread depth remaining seems about equal.

I tried to measure them this weekend but my wife's cloth measuring tape was too short

Yes that is still what has me confused. I would think if the viscous coupling was toast it would stay locked up. When it is cool it seems to be working fine. Maybe I should just bite the bullet and buy a new set of tires? I could make these last at least until winter but then do I risk burning up the transfer case completely?? Why did I buy an AWD!?!?

 

[fusseli]

The tires aren't in good shape but they are all the same brand/model and appear to have the same wear. Tread depth remaining seems about equal.

I tried to measure them this weekend but my wife's cloth measuring tape was too short

Yes that is still what has me confused. I would think if the viscous coupling was toast it would stay locked up. When it is cool it seems to be working fine. Maybe I should just bite the bullet and buy a new set of tires? I could make these last at least until winter but then do I risk burning up the transfer case completely?? Why did I buy an AWD!?!?

First thing I did in January after mine started acting up was buy my Cooper tires, changed nothing. If anything it might be wearing the new tires more by grinding them on the pavement whenever it binds haha. It lasted months of being fine after cooling off over night. It hasn't been until recently that hints of binding happen at all times. And ya AWD is awesome but a big gamble buying a high mileage used AWD.

Please post if you get it checked out at a shop and or quoted. A new t-case is $$ (it's a BW4410) and a used one is questionable since who knows what abuse it saw, unless it's really low miles. Supposedly just changing the VC is an option, but tough when you don't have air tools and who wants to trust a shop with that?

 

[speedball]

First thing I did in January after mine started acting up was buy my Cooper tires, changed nothing. If anything it might be wearing the new tires more by grinding them on the pavement whenever it binds haha. It lasted months of being fine after cooling off over night. It hasn't been until recently that hints of binding happen at all times. And ya AWD is awesome but a big gamble buying a high mileage used AWD.

Please post if you get it checked out at a shop and or quoted. A new t-case is $$ (it's a BW4410) and a used one is questionable since who knows what abuse it saw, unless it's really low miles. Supposedly just changing the VC is an option, but tough when you don't have air tools and who wants to trust a shop with that?

I am going to pull the front drive shaft on Thursday and drive it a day or two (making sure to set the park brake). Hopefully this will verify its the TC. Believe it or not I actually have an aftermarket warranty that should cover the TC. I am not holding my breath though after reading horror stories of how these 3rd party warranty companies screw you with fine print. Ultimitely I may just buy a VC for $290 and do it myself.

 

[speedball]

UPDATE - OK pulled the front drive shaft and drove it about 20 minutes. Serious binding is completely gone in tight turns and when making figure eights! So this means the viscous coupling is toast? Correct?

My only other concern is there is still a shuddering when I make shallow turns. When I turn sharply or when I do figure 8 eights it's completely smooth. Why the heck would it shudder only in shallow turns??

 

[fusseli]

Maybe also a wheel bearing or CV axle issue somewhere? Not sure.