1997 Ford Explorer Transmission Slipping/Thermostat Housing Unit

[XLTrunner]

Of course...like any repair business, auto shops make money on parts. Can't blame them for that. And, because they must warranty their work, they usually go with factory OEM parts (such as Ford parts...which, as I mentioned previously, are often supplied by Motorcraft). I buy most of my parts online from Rockauto.com. In the case of your radiator, they list the same Spectra brand I put in my truck for $136; plus $12 shipping to my door. They also sell the Motorcraft (Ford) brand for $505. Is the Motorcraft radiator four times better than the Spectra...hell no! I expect the replacement Spectra I installed will last just as long. Even so, I could install three of them for less than one Motorcraft. But, that's the advantage of being a DIYer.

I don't mean to complicate your decisions with the "buy your own parts" prices I've thrown out there. For someone who must rely on a shop to do their repairs, it's frustrating to see the large discrepancies between what you can buy them for vs what a shop will quote. But, it gives you a glimpse into the potential benefits of learning to do even the most basic repairs yourself. And, these trucks are the perfect platform in which to learn because they're relatively easy to work on.

 

[Ocrob37]

I called a different mechanic this morning and was planning on having my car towed there. I was curious what quote I would get from my current place on my radiator. I had set a limit in my head of $400. I had a guy willing to do it for $280 but I would have had to get my car towed 45 miles and waste a lot of time. My current mechanic called me and quoted me $400. They are only charging me $165 for the radiator and around $220 for labor. I know the labor is very high but I can deal with this price. I was also told the charge for the transmission service is only $110. No idea how that happened. So, with brand new transmission oil and hopefully filter and a radiator I am looking at $510. This seems fair at this point. If they do a good job fixing it and my transmission turns out to be ok I will then deal with the tstat housing. He also said they checked the transmission fluid and they don't think anything got into the transmission. The saga continues.

 

[Spuddy]

...The t-stat housing may be leaking...but, it's not going to be so bad that you can't drive it as long as you keep an eye on the coolant level on a daily basis...

^ +1
Completely agree with XLTrunner on your housing leak. I just replaced mine a few weeks ago. I noticed my leak (coming from around the sensors on the lower housing) when I took off the upper and lower intake manifold to change my leaking manifold gaskets. At least the upper manifold needs to come off to get access to swap out the housing, and that's a good bit of work. Here's a link to a really good write-up on this, FYI...
http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/index.php?threads/4-0-sohc-plastic-thermostat-housing.239493/

You should also have the shop replace the short bypass hose ($6?) that connects the lower housing to the water pump. It would be a lot of work it go back in there just for that.

Yeah, $600 seems a little high to me for a mechanic to do this. Should be no more than two to three hours. I might hope a dealership would do it for that price.

Good luck!

 

[Ocrob37]

Thanks. I am hoping everything goes well with the radiator replacement and the transmission works properly. I will just drive the car for a while and keep an eye on the leak. I do very little driving. If I drive anywhere in town it is 3 miles round trip. My car made a 400 mile drive here with out any overheating or incidents.

 

[Spuddy]

Well, you updated the thread before I finished my post!

That sounds like pretty good news. I agree that $510 sounds like a good number for a total on this, despite the high labor $$.

 

[Ocrob37]

This forum is inspiring me. I do plan on getting a newer car eventually and was hoping to keep my explorer as a second car. I may try to start doing some of my own work but will have to start out at extreme beginner level.

 

[Spuddy]

I forgot to mention that the leaking lower thermostat housing is a VERY common problem, and continued until Ford redesigned the lower housing, first appearing 7/24/00 on '01 Sport Trac's (and perhaps others?)

 

[Ocrob37]

Mine is a 1997. Now that I am learning a little bit I am surprised the dealer would not have taken a look at this after replacing my coolant. My current mechanic wants to order the entire bundle from Ford at $500. There is no way I will let this happen. Once I see that my car is up and running I will ask him to only order the parts that are needed or I will go somewhere else. I don't think this should be more than a $400 job including parts.

 

[XLTrunner]

I think you're wise to stick with this shop...even though I think the $220 labor is a little bit excessive. But, maybe that includes flushing the coolant system to rid it of the tranny fluid? I'd still shop around (outside of this town) for a better deal on the t-stat housing if you proceed with that in the near future. Best of luck...hope it all works out.

 

[Spuddy]

Those parts shouldn't be that much even from Ford!

Okay I just checked Tasca Ford. They have the lower housing for $40.76 (and list the MSRP at $61.76).

I got the same part - Motorcraft RH144 - from RockAuto for $32.89.

Yes, there will be a shipping fee added, but... Methinks yer boy is trying to rob you on those parts.

I suggest you order the parts yourself (from either Tasca or RockAuto) and find somebody you can bring them to to put them on for you.

I'll post back in a few minutes with a short list of what you need. You don't need everything.

 

[Spuddy]

...Okay I just checked Tasca Ford....

OOPSIE! I thought I was looking at the Tasca Ford price, but, I was mistaken.

Price I quoted was actually from Fred Beans Ford.

Going to work up your parts list now.

 

[Ocrob37]

Thanks. The shop is being lazy and ordering the entire bundle from Ford. I called Ford on my own and they did quote for $496. I am going to see how everything else goes and if I am happy I will then go back to them and ask if I can either order the parts or have them order from somewhere else. I realize they may make some money on the parts, but am happy to let them mark up the labor so that I can save money and they can make money. There really is no way they can tell which part is leaking must by eyeballing it. I would think they would need to disassemble to see if they can use some of the parts.

 

[Spuddy]

Hmmm...

Well, yes, $494.12 is msrp on the complete set for a '97.

The problem is you really don't want that because it's just going to leak again someday. What you want to do is what the OP did in the link I provided - swap out the lower thermostat housing with the new and improved version from an 02 Sport Trac. I'll boil it down for you with the part numbers in the next post.

Again, all of these lower thermostat housings are faulty by design and will leak eventually, until they improved the design to feature clip-in sensors rather than screw-in sensors.

...And, the upgraded Ford parts will be way less than $100 !

 

[Ocrob37]

Sounds great. I will keep the list and see if the mechanic will use the parts.

 

[XLTrunner]

I had already provided an itemized list early on in this thread. With the new updated housing, you'll need to replace both sensors as they will clip in as compared to being threaded. But, my experience is that the temp gauge sensor isn't going to come out of the old housing anyway unless you dissect the housing. Problem is, the retaining nut fits inside a plastic recess and, once you try to unscrew it, it will spin inside the plastic and not allow the sensor to be unthreaded. Another reason why the updated housing is the way to go. Remember to retain the old upper housing as the updated one doesn't fit right.

 

[swshawaii]

As XLTrunner can attest in post #46 linked below, DO NOT cheap out with the Dorman or Four Seasons kit. Gates sells a similar kit, but it still uses failure prone threaded sensors. Only modification required for the Motorcraft RH144 lower housing upgrade is removing the protruding bushing sleeves when reusing the old upper housing. Time proven upgrade, do it.

4.0 SOHC plastic thermostat housing | Ford Explorer and Ford Ranger Forums - Serious Explorations

 

[Ocrob37]

I will definitely refer back to these posts when I am ready to have the T-stat housing replaces.

 

[Spuddy]

My answer... was to buy just the new style lower [housing]. Then I transferred the existing thermostat, [and old] upper [housing] to the new housing. The new RH144 lower housing uses o-ring style push in temp sensors... The new sensors don't screw in, they push in and use a metal spring clip to hold them in.
[Seal them with a nice thick bead of Permatex Form-a-gasket #2 Non-hardening sealant on the o-rings or the sensors to prevent leaks.]

...Here's a breakdown of the parts needed to make this all work -
RH144 (lower housing) $37.37
RG-614 (lower seal) $3.62
DY-1269 (temp [sensor]) $22.57
[SW-5491] (temp [sender]) $18.71
sensor locking clips [$ ???]*

NOTE : All prices quoted above are today's price at AutoNation Ford White Bear Lake Ford (formerly Tousley Ford), and are for an '02 Explorer Sport Trac.

Total = $82.27 w/o shipping or clips

*I could not locate the clips except at my local dealer for $11 a piece - ouch. - Spuddy

...and your old thermostat will drop right into the new housing [and re-use old upper housing and bolts/screws].

DO NOT use the RH165 [water] outlet / upper [housing (from an 02 Sport Trac)] it will NOT fit. It has the wrong angle and the hose will not line up.
[Also,]... you have to pop the brass bushings out of the old upper outlet so that it will fit on the new lower housing. The new lower housing has the alignment bushings protruding upward and into the upper half. It fits perfectly, if you want a new top half then buy one for the old style 199[7] and then pop the bushings out.

- OR -

[You can] pull the metal sleeves out of the new lower housing, pretty easy.

When i did mine i popped the bushings out of the upper, then the upper fits on lower perfectly. I guess it really wouldn't matter though. I used a small socket and a hammer to push mine out.

_____________

ford part # / description / (motocraft #)

2L5Z-8592-BB -- lower thermostat housing (RH144)
1L2Z-8255-AA -- lower housing thermostat seal (RG614)
W702837-S300 -- thermostat seal (aka large o-ring)*
2L2Z 8575 AA -- thermostat (RT1167)*
3F1Z-10884-AA -- [Engine Coolant Temperature Sender] (SW5491 or SW6146)
3L8Z-12A648-BA - [Engine Coolant Temperature Sensor] (DY1004) [or DY1269]
W706800-S303 -- retainer clips for sensors (2 Req'd)
W500015-S437 -- bolts for housing upper (3 Req'd)*
W702527-S437 -- bolts for housing lower (3 Req'd)*

*[Spuddy: Your old thermostat, thermostat o-ring and the bolts can be reused - I did. However, my bolts were awfully cruddy, but I just cleaned them up and lubed them with WD-40 - YMMV ]

_____________
[Edits by Spuddy - all above quotes from:
http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/index.php?threads/4-0-sohc-plastic-thermostat-housing.239493/]


You will also want to get that bypass hose, part # F77Z-8548-AF (for a '97, but same part fits many years/models.) - $7.12*

The 1997 Explorer SOHC 4.0 Water Outlet (aka Upper thermostat Housing) - if yours is cracked, etc. - is # F7TZ-8594-A, $95.12* - ouch!

*from AutoNation Ford White Bear Lake Ford
==============

You will need a new lower housing because it's a defective design and going to leak if it isn't now. And therefore you need a new lower gasket and new sensors and the clips.
But the lower housing is the most likely source of the leak, either a crack, or the gasket between the lower and the block (which you need to replace anyway if you're replacing the lower), or it's just leaking from around the sensors, as almost all are.

The upper housing (aka water outlet) is expensive, but it's usually just fine and can be reused, as can your thermostat and thermostat gasket. However, the thermostat and gasket are cheap, so that will have to be your call.

BTW - Your guys don't seem to be robbing you to bad after all, they just get MSRP price on parts, so you could just have them order these parts - show them this post. I didn't add up the MSRP prices but it's less than double, so less than $150 vs almost $500.

I hope all this makes sense. Good luck!

 

[Spuddy]

I had already provided an itemized list early on in this thread...

Yeah, post #2. How da f@#! did I miss that??

Well, at least we're all in agreement here!

 

[swshawaii]

*I could not locate the clips except at my local dealer for $11 a piece - ouch. - Spuddy

4.0 SOHC plastic thermostat housing | Page 2 | Ford Explorer and Ford Ranger Forums - Serious Explorations