List of Useful Threads 3.5L Water pump replacement - Gotchya's

[peterk9]

Can you explain why you need two bolts for each phaser? Or is it you need one per phaser? Thanks.

Welcome to the Forum your highness.

Peter

 

[mcpcartier]

Can you explain why you need two bolts for each phaser? Or is it you need one per phaser? Thanks.

Can't recall what I wrote......may go back and read it again later but wanted to share my immediate thoughts.

You don't need two (2) bolts per phaser....if I said that it's not right. You need two (2) of each bolt type....so two (2) short phaser bolts (intake on each bank) and two (2) long phaser bolts (exhaust on each bank).

I have replaced another water pump and did not change the chains/tensioners this one. Was able to do it without removing any phaser bolts or secondary chains. Popped off the main chain....then the guide on the left bank (front of vehicle) came out easy. For the right bank (firewall side) I was able to loosen the bolt holding the guide and back it out about 1/2"...did NOT remove it. That gave me enough room to squeeze the water pump out and put the new one in. Saved tons of time dealing with secondary chains and phaser bolts.

 

[peterk9]

Did you replace it again for preventive maintenance or was it bad?

Peter

 

[jzcop]

So, let me put into prospective. For a dealer who has all the right equipment, AC charge machine, hydraulic table to drop the subframe, etc... It "maybe" quicker to drop the engine. But it requires so many other items to be disconnected: exhaust, axles, etc. I am an advance diyer, doing this in my home garage. No room for that kind of operation. I don't know for a fact if the dealer drops engines for this job.

I do know that for Toyota 2GR-FE (current gen v6, chain driven) water pump and a lot of other items were originally specked to be engine out jobs.
Just did 2014 Highlander and definitely did not need to drop the engine. Toyota also updated their procedures to not drop the engine.
But at least they designed the engine right, where water pump is belt driven and is removable without tearing entire timing mechanism apart.

I definitely feel like this job is just fine for how I am doing it, ie engine in the car. It does take a lot longer doing things the first time, but that's par for the course. Last night I made good progress, timing cover is in, and it went a lot easier than I anticipated. It took me longer to remove it than put it back in. I did lift the engine a bit to give me even more clearance room, but I did it when I was taking cover out originally, so its unchanged since then. Putting RTV was a bit of a pain, but ended up using my fingers around the alternator and rear head and got it done.

Gotta prep the surface, cleaning everything is essential for a leak free result.

As mentioned, Honda is alot tighter. Key there is to remove the body side engine mount to get at bolts for snub engine mount on engine side.

Here are more of the carnage pics:

New timing set installed (primary chain, secondary chains, 3 new tensioners, every chain guide, water pump
View attachment 175692


Right bank (rear) timing mark

View attachment 175693

Left bank (front) timing mark

View attachment 175694

Crank pulley timing mark

View attachment 175695

New primary tensioner (different design than OE ford)

View attachment 175696

Front timing chain cover

View attachment 175697

Replaced crank seal

View attachment 175698

Cleaned the bolts and timing cover

View attachment 175699

Finally cover is glued back on

View attachment 175700



View attachment 175701

On your timing cover third picture up, the four center raised flanges above the crankshaft seal where the middle bolts go, do they have to have sealent on them too? i think i forgot those and don't want to take the cover back off again.

 

[Maxud]

On your timing cover third picture up, the four center raised flanges above the crankshaft seal where the middle bolts go, do they have to have sealent on them too? i think i forgot those and don't want to take the cover back off again.

yes, those are anchor bosses, and must have sealant on them as well. Otherwise you may get oil leak from under those mounting bolts

 

[Shortys7777]

I am tackling this job tomorrow. Does it matter what order I put the timing cover bolts back in as long as its done in 15 minutes from what ive read? what are the torques on them? Lot of good information on here. thanks.

 

[bst]

When I have some more time I'll try to add other information, but figured I'd share some of the mistakes/thoughts from replacing the water pump last weekend.

BTW....I have a 2013 Limited with a 3.5L Naturally Aspirated

First off....I referenced the online video's by Robinson Auto (he did a flex) and Makuloco (F-150) extensively....those were invaluable. Even with those I managed to make several key mistakes.

1. Main chain guide's (black)
----- These are installed right above the water pump. The mounting bolt for one of these is shadowed by one of the phasers. Make sure you mount those BEFORE you mount the phasers. The phaser bolts are torque to yield so if you need to take a phaser out to install the guide you need new phaser bolts.

2. Timing Chain Cover bolts (15mm bolts in the center of the cover)
----- Two (2) of the 15mm bolts cannot fit between the frame and the cover (at least for my 2013 NA explorer). They must be in placed in the cover before dropping the cover into place. Or you get the joy of taking it back out and re-doing the RTV etc...

3. Secondary Chain Tensioner Activation
--- The melling BT7008 tensioners MUST BE manually activated. This mean nothing happens when you pull out the blue tab. I mistakenly thought that released them so they're ready to go....NOPE....what that tab does is make sure you can't inadvertently activate them by pushing the piston in by accident. Once you have it mounted remove the tab. Then install the phasers and secondary chain. After everything's in place push that piston in until you hear a click and release. The tensioner will push up on the chain like you expect. If you forget to do this you get to take your valve covers off again and do it....ask me how I know. You do have to push hard....I used a piece of wood because my whimpy hands couldn't take the pressure.

4. Crank Pulley Puller
---- find the one recommended in the video's (i can't recall)...but it's tiny (narrow). The puller I borrowed from O'Reilly wouldn't fit inside the crank pulley.

I didn't evac the AC....that would have made putting in the timing cover easier....but it's totally doable without touching the AC.

I thought i did a great job of blocking the top of the oil pan before removing the water pump...still had about a liter of coolant end up in there. Don't know how you can avoid that.

Thanks for the post. I'm planning to do my 2012 in the next few weeks ...... it has 235K miles and is leaking now.

 

[peterk9]

Thanks for the post. I'm planning to do my 2012 in the next few weeks ...... it has 235K miles and is leaking now.

Welcome to the Forum.
Have you checked the oil on the dipstick? If the pump is leaking, it may not be a good idea to keep driving the vehicle.
Not sure if you've seen this thread. Water pump failure leads to dead engine

Peter

 

[bst]

Welcome to the Forum.
Have you checked the oil on the dipstick? If the pump is leaking, it may not be a good idea to keep driving the vehicle.
Not sure if you've seen this thread. Water pump failure leads to dead engine

Peter

Peter, thanks for the suggestion. Dipstick seems normal, no indication of coolant leaking. I have stopped driving it.

 

[JohnelP]

Welcome to the Forum.
Have you checked the oil on the dipstick? If the pump is leaking, it may not be a good idea to keep driving the vehicle.
Not sure if you've seen this thread. Water pump failure leads to dead engine

Peter

Peter, I was thinking maybe it would worth trying to create a sort of database with dyi people that went through the water pump change experience, and are willing to assist new people trying to go over the work -per specific geographic areas. Free of charge, and no obligation. Like for example, in DFW area, unless my wife has more urgent plans, I am OK to spend some time if anyone in DFW area would feel more comfortable to have someone that went over the process once and just be there. It is not they "will do it for you", but they will be "chatting with you". Haven't done it in DFW, but i did that with Audi "mechanical get together" back in Atlanta and works super. And fun. Some came with the needed special tools, and that helped a lot. With ford is easy, because besides cam locking tool, you do not need any specialized tools.

Because, let's face it. Every 3.5L owner will face the water pump change, no exception. Beyond 120k miles, it is a gamble. And why should we spend 3k $ when we can have it done for the cost of parts <300$. Especially it is totally doable by an average dyi-er (like, e.g. me).

Also, one suggestion. Some shops will drain your AC for free. They can release the pressure in the circuit to atmospheric pressure, without going into vacuum. They practically take your refrigerant, clean it and reuse it; so they are not in a loss if you do not come back to recharge with them.
That way you can disconnect the AC line and work will get way way easier. Worth every penny. Only note is to have two plugs for the disconnected lines to block so air moisture does not get in system and take your time. And replace the seals. The AC recovery machine will also tell you how much AC oil was lost during drain process to add it back when recharge. Usually ~one ounce. I have the 609 certification,

 

[Mduff17XLT]

Hello, I know this thread has a little age but is very relevant. I wanted to share an issue I had during this job. I am actually still in the middle of it but should be wrapped up this afternoon.

Anyways, I broke the bottom bolt of the LH main chain guide. I will post picture as well. I spent hours trying to get to it and nothing seemed to work. Bought a new right angle drill and various extractors. I barely got it to move and was getting discouraged. As I am sitting on the ground in disgust I look over and notice the reason the hole is deep is because it passes through the oil pump. Lmao, I take 5 bolts off and was able to spin the remains of the bolt out and everything was all good. Moral of the story, don't trust a harbor freight torque wrench to work and evaluate the whole environment before you go crazy trying to fix something.

This thread has been a huge help with this job, thank you! The Haynes manual is a great reference as well.

 

[peterk9]

Hello, I know this thread has a little age but is very relevant. I wanted to share an issue I had during this job. I am actually still in the middle of it but should be wrapped up this afternoon.

Anyways, I broke the bottom bolt of the LH main chain guide. I will post picture as well. I spent hours trying to get to it and nothing seemed to work. Bought a new right angle drill and various extractors. I barely got it to move and was getting discouraged. As I am sitting on the ground in disgust I look over and notice the reason the hole is deep is because it passes through the oil pump. Lmao, I take 5 bolts off and was able to spin the remains of the bolt out and everything was all good. Moral of the story, don't trust a harbor freight torque wrench to work and evaluate the whole environment before you go crazy trying to fix something.

This thread has been a huge help with this job, thank you! The Haynes manual is a great reference as well.

Welcome to the Forum and thanks for the info.

Peter

 

[bst]

Hello, I know this thread has a little age but is very relevant. I wanted to share an issue I had during this job. I am actually still in the middle of it but should be wrapped up this afternoon.

Anyways, I broke the bottom bolt of the LH main chain guide. I will post picture as well. I spent hours trying to get to it and nothing seemed to work. Bought a new right angle drill and various extractors. I barely got it to move and was getting discouraged. As I am sitting on the ground in disgust I look over and notice the reason the hole is deep is because it passes through the oil pump. Lmao, I take 5 bolts off and was able to spin the remains of the bolt out and everything was all good. Moral of the story, don't trust a harbor freight torque wrench to work and evaluate the whole environment before you go crazy trying to fix something.

This thread has been a huge help with this job, thank you! The Haynes manual is a great reference as well.


View attachment 447324

Thanks for sharing that. I plan to be doing this soon ........

 

[Mduff17XLT]

Thanks for sharing that. I plan to be doing this soon ........

It has been rather smooth. I have taken my time but for the most part it is easy enough. My opinion is to use all ford parts. Turned out to cost the same as aftermarket stuff in my case.

 

[ntfds]

Doing this job now on 2013 Ford Explorer 3.5 non turbo.
Water pump is leaking externally (thank god), my friend lost an engine on 2012 Mazda CX-9 3.7L duratec, that dumped all coolant into oil.
My valve covers were super difficult to pry off. Old rubber glued to the heads and especially spark plug tube seals.
Go gently from different angles and eventually they will separate. Front chain cover was stuck on one of the guide pins (rear bottom).
Again, go easy and rock it back and forth.
I bought cam holder tool set from ebay, and disappointed with it. The fit has a bit of play, which causes the whole assembly to rock and slip.
Almost bought OTC brand, not sure if the fit is any better. For something I dont plan on using ever again, I did not want to spend a lot of money.
I pulled harmonic balancer by grabbing the outer edges with my regular puller. Like OP mentioned, you need a special puller to pull by inside
spokes. I could have probably used my sliding hammer puller, but just grabbed a large external one and it was fine, nothing got bent.

I also only had one bolt 15mm that did not come out of the cover. But also had one of the top V 6 bolts was interfering. I removed the engine mount
stud for that one.

I am over half way done with the job, put the new water pump in already.
Here is a portion of procedure dealing with timing, for anybody brave enough to do it
https://f01.justanswer.com/dcraig1000/115055f0-8c9a-4c2f-85f6-672e977a814b_eee.pdf

I am taking a lot of pictures, so if anybody needs a pic of something, reply here.

A piece of art, brought to you by Ford Duratec

View attachment 175673

Full timing chain kit and new water pump

View attachment 175674


And the guts of the devil

View attachment 175675

What is the black plug under the water pump?

 

[peterk9]

What is the black plug under the water pump?

Welcome to the Forum.
Do you have a picture? I have never checked mine out as everything has been good so I have no idea about the plug. Perhaps someone else can help.

Peter

 

[Mduff17XLT]

I'm going to assume you are talking about this. Looks like it plugs a hole that is used on other engines that shares the same block design. But I may be wrong.

 

[lil mikey]

Hey all,

Some background, a tip, and then a question.

I purchased my 2015 Sport with the water pump leaking from the bottom hole at 90k miles June of 2020 (the top hole is just a vent to allow the coolant to drain from the lower - If you see coolant at the top you have a BIG leak ) My plan was for the Sport to replace the 2000 Limited when it finally fails (330k+ and now more reliable than the 2015, since I'm doing another water pump and the 2000 4.0 SOHC has only had one water pump "while I was in there" doing the timing chains) I changed all fluids on the Sport, cleaned out the intake runners and intake manifold, installed a dual catch can setup, and replaced the water pump with the Delco dual gasket pump. I also switched to CAT ELC NF - which I'm sure will insight comment from a few. Fast forward a few years and 38k miles and the Delco pump is leaking.

Tip: The weep hole is a semi circular hole cast into the edge of a freeze plug filled port in the block above the alternator as described earlier in this thread. To make monitoring the weep hole easier, I inserted a length of clear tubing into the weep hole and then sealed it with silicone. The clear tube runs down and makes a loop where it is zip tied just to the passenger side of the oil filter. That way I just look at it when I do an oil change every 5k and see if there is any coolant in the tube.


Question: Has anyone else had a Delco water pump fail at less than 100k? I'm thinking I might go with the Motorcraft replacement even if it has a single gasket, but really like the dual gasket setup on the Delco. Carter also has a dual gasket setup - likely made by the same factory as the Delco unit.