4.0 to Aod adapter from AA

[410Fortune]

You would have to use a 5 speed computer for your 4.0L, and an aftermarket transmission control unit.

 

[slovic]

Brett, you are right. we have many issues to solve
before a product can be released. The issues I have
been bringing up are just the basics. If I was to
guess on a time period for a 4.0 adapter, I would put
the earliest prototype at 2-4 months. I talked with
Baumann engineering today and feel pretty confident
about the shifting issues. They offered their future
assistance for this kit, as they also think it would
be a great solution. A bracket for the t-case is
almost always necessary, especially since self
contained linkage is unheard of now of days. I'm
hoping a whole new manual computer is not going to be
necessary, but it sounds like you have much more
experience then me on this specific issue, and I know there will be a time
when we will have to focus on the 4.0 computer. Our
first goal is to mate the two successfully. I can tell
you from past experience many people just want the
adapters and are willing to try prototypes. They are
willing to address many of the issues that you
discussed. It is not for the novice mechanic. It
really takes someone strong in electrical and
fabrication skills. It takes a problem solver. I have
worked with several individuals who actually enjoy
working out those issues. They are willing to help us
if they can get a break on the price or maybe even
free product. I guess some people would just rather
work on it, rather than wait. Its kind of a risky
venture for the individual to take, and we warn them
about it. Believe me, we won't just send the first
prototype to the first volunteer; futhermore, many of
the issues you discussed and many more are all valid
and eventually must be addressed. Who knows this
whole project may get scrapped and never leave R&D.
There are a lot projects that never make it out of
R&D, i.e. chevy 350 to jeep aw4 trans, I.H. 345 to
NV4500, Isuzu trooper conversions, and many more. I
hope this clears up some of your concerns. I am sorry
that you have had bad experiences with AA in the past.

p.s. based on your comments and many others here, it looks like aode will be a better choice, my discussion with baumann was based on aode. thanks again for pointing out all of these issues

 

[slovic]

I think that I should correct exactly who should volunteer for a prototpe. This should be an experienced business who deals with the explorer and the 4.0 motor rather than an "individual or two" as I stated earlier. I'm not saying here's the adapters, now you figure it out. I'm saying this could be an opportunity for a shop to get a lot of exposure and business. if in return we can get feedback. Please understand we just don't have the capability to buy every vehicle for prototying purposes. We deal with way too many vehicles. Many of our customers ask us if we can reccomend a shop who has done a specific conversion.

 

[410Fortune]

Slovic,

The wiring issues with the early OHV 4.0L EEC computer:

The EEC-IV controls two things in the A4LD. This is done through two wires. These wires go directly from the computer to the transmission. The first wire controls the shift solenoid for the 3-4 shift. This is the overdrive shift on the A4LD.

The second wire controls the lock up torque converter.

These two wires are basically the only thing that makes the automatic computer differ from the 5 speed. It is possible to use a automatic computer in a truck with a 5 speed, however without modification to the profile this will set codes. There are a few other slight differences in the automatic/manual wiring harness as well. Unless you can use these two computer functions to control the new transmission (AODE), or re-flash the EEC computer itself with a new profile, they are useless and the only proper way to complete the conversion would be to install a 5 speed computer and modify both the main wiring harness and the transmission wiring harness.

Now I can also say that when it comes to someone like this:


"It is not for the novice mechanic. It
really takes someone strong in electrical and
fabrication skills. It takes a problem solver. I have
worked with several individuals who actually enjoy
working out those issues."


You are talking about Brett.

 

[asp84]

As stated before. I HAVE an AOD installed in my 1991 Explorer 4x4 4door.
Just to answer (or attempt to at least) some of the questions I have seen brought up.

1. 4.0 to AOD Bellhousing: The AOD/4R70W tranny Bellhousing DWARFS the 4.0L bolt pattern. The Torque Converter for the AOD/4R70W is also two times as large as the A4LD torque Converter. I not trying to be a pessimist here, but; In order for this to work, Some sort of specialty Torque Converter would have to be made to compensate for the extra length the adapater adds........that mates the 4.0 to the AOD.

2. Concerning the AOD fit: In my 1991 Explorer, I was able to fit the AOD in my transmission TUNNEL just fine. Although, it did require taking my Sledge hammer and pounding in the body seam, especially under the master cyclinder area. (In my conversion, I had the AOD/5.0 sitting a little farther forward than most people, to give me clearence for the Air Conditioning components.
Note: Without a bodylift, Removing or instaling the AOD would be pretty hard. WITH a body lift, it only takes me two hours to remove the AOD.

3. Concerning the wiring: Using a 5spd Computer Regardless of the what type of Auto transmission you use might be a bad idea. The 4.0L Automatic transmission EEC-IV system is set up to to control Idle and other characteristics of a Auto transmission differently than an Manual 5spd)

Wiring a AOD-E or a 4R70W to a 4.0L computer should be no problem when using a Baummanator TCS electronic transmission controller. All you would need is an input from your Vehicle Spped Sensor, Throttle Position Sensor, and a little Vehicle Run Power and your set. You should be able to wire up the old 4.0 L A4LD connections as so they don't set off the 4.0 computer. Regardless, who cares if you have a check engine light, you'll a have a fullsize transmission......thats all you care about right?

One more thing. I was able to bolt up the AOD transmission right to the original A4LD transmission crossmember using the same A4LD rubber trany mount. Note: this is in conjunction with a BW 1354 to AOD Advanced Adapter mount.

Although, since you would be using an AOD-E or 4R70W which is longer in length due to the lock-up clutch in the torque converter, and the Adapter to mate the AOD-E/4R70W, also might add length, therefore you might need to extend drivelines or move the transmission crossmember farther back.

If anybody has questions concerning how the AOD fits in an early explorer, let me know.

Al

 

[410Fortune]

I did not have any problems running my now automatic truck with a 5 speed computer. My computer failed (the A4LD one) and until I could get a new one I drove the truck with my old 5 speed computer hooked up.

4.0L ran perfectly. Of course I did not have an OD or a lock up converter, but other then that it works fine.
I agree the auto and manual EEC's have a different "profile" but the differences did not effect the 4.0L at all.

Keep in mind I also have a 4.0L engine that originally was mated to a Mazda 5 speed. There has been some discussion amongst engine rebuilders that there is a difference in cams between the auto and m5 speed engines from Ford and this may have diverse effects and may not work properly with the auto torque converter. The only thing I have noticed is that my computer shifts into OD way too early, however this may be due to my 3.73 gears, speedo gear, and 31" tires. I will be re-gearing to 4.10's running 33's and installing the appropriate speedo gear next week.
The TPS may also have something to do with it since I have a BBK 66mm TB.....

 

[RockRanger]

Originally posted by 410Fortune


Now I can also say that when it comes to someone like this:


"It is not for the novice mechanic. It
really takes someone strong in electrical and
fabrication skills. It takes a problem solver. I have
worked with several individuals who actually enjoy
working out those issues."


You are talking about Brett.

That has to be one of the truest things I have read on this board. Dont count yourself short eather 410 you arent to bad yourself eather.

I still want to see a np435 adapter

Matt

 

[Adam Baker]

I was just curious if anything more had happened w/ this. I plan on using my ranger for drag racing, and had originally planned on using a T-5, but during conversations w/ friends, it came up that using an auto tranny would work much better.

 

[AZ Exployer]

Yep 5.0 AOD conversion lookin better by the post

Why does anyone want to spend that much money matching an AOD to the 4.0? For my money I would rather go for the 5.0, it would probably be cheaper,gas mileage isnt significantly different. The 5.0 in whatever form is going to have more torque and power.

 

[asp84]

As mentioned before. You would NOT match an AOD to a 4.0L. If you wanted to go this route, you would mate a 4R70W (AODE-W) controlled by the Baumman TCS computer. The 4R70W is just a big A4LD.

 

[410Fortune]

The 4.0L with a AOD would be a horrible setup for drag racing......You would lose all yourpower inthe AOD, it is simply not suited to fit behind the OHV or SOHC, there are about 50 other tranmissions that would work better......who cares if they are not Ford, what we need is a good reliable tranny that can take the power and abuse, fit in the drivetrain without oo much trouble, and most of all be cost effecient.

The AOD is great behind a 5.0L, but not a 4.0L, have you ever put an A4LD and AOD side by side?

 

[Adam Baker]

Who manufactures the tranny isnt really of any concern to me. So far this is one of the things that I havent investigated much, so Im not sure of all the options that are available. I had originally planned on using the T5, but since an automatic tranny makes building boost while sitting on the line, a lot easier, Im reconsidering my use of the T5.

 

[asp84]

Ford made the AOD from 1980 to 1993. Ford introduced the 4R70W in 1994, and was used on everything from mustangs to Expeditions.

 

[Rick]

Posted for Diff Whack Daddy who is now on a tour of duty out on the Indian Ocean.

"Hey Rick, could you post this on the thread for me and let me know if
anything comes back on it. Thanks.

Correct me if I am wrong, but the Baumann Engineering tranny controller for
the AODE will plug right in to the EEC IV(4) system. If this is the case,
then it would make it that much easier to adapt the AODE and eliminate some
of the electronic controll problems that some were talking about in the
thread. I can't remember if we have the EEC III(3) or EEC IV(4), but they
can't be much different and I am sure that Bauman Engineering could make it
work if we have the latter of the two. If you get a chance to look in to
this I would appreciate it.

Also, I heard if you take the tailshaft housing from an AOD and put it on
the AODE, you can bolt up a NP205 or any other transfer case with the
correct spline count as it would effectivley convert the AODE from it's odd
5 bolt to the standard 6 bolt circle. The only thing that has to be done is
to grind a smal area to allow the t-case linkage the room to work. This
would make it possible to mate a Klune V crawler box and an NP205 mated to
the AODE for a bullet proof drivetrain with a lot of selectable gear ratios.

Sure, I know that all this will cause driveshaft work, lengthening and/or
shortening, but if you are going to do a swap like this, you might as well
do it right."

 

[asp84]

Well, The Baumann TCS controller doesn't literally "PLUG-IN" but.... it does splice in. Yes the Baumann TCS will operate any AODE/ 4R70W (AODE-W) and 4R100 and E40D. Yes, the baummann TCS will work with any Explorer Computer system, regardless if you have a 5spd or auto. The Baumann Electronic Transmission Controller works off any Ford throttle position sensor.

The ONLY Transmission that would work behind a 4.0L V6 would be the 4R70W (AODE) (well..... it would be most preferable)

The AOD is out of the picture!!!!!! (that would suck behind a 4.0)

Hope that helps,
Al
(in the process of putting a 4R70W in his X)

 

[Paul Gagnon]

Originally posted by Rick
Also, I heard if you take the tailshaft housing from an AOD and put it on
the AODE, you can bolt up a NP205 or any other transfer case with the
correct spline count as it would effectivley convert the AODE from it's odd
5 bolt to the standard 6 bolt circle. The only thing that has to be done is
to grind a smal area to allow the t-case linkage the room to work. This
would make it possible to mate a Klune V crawler box and an NP205 mated to
the AODE for a bullet proof drivetrain with a lot of selectable gear ratios.

Sure, I know that all this will cause driveshaft work, lengthening and/or
shortening, but if you are going to do a swap like this, you might as well
do it right."

A very good point Rick.

The fullsize AOD/AODE/4R70W uses the standard 6 bolt, 31 spline output. In my opinion it makes no sense to try to adapt these transmissions to fit the oddball 5 bolt 25 spline input of the Explorer transfer case. Doing so would only limit your choices. By keeping the 6 bolt flange you can bolt up the NP205, NP271, NP273, BW 13-45, BW 13-56, Klune-V as well as other transfer cases or over/underdrives with no adapters. The argument about about using stock driveshafts is silly. For one thing the case length on the A4LD is quite a bit longer than the AOD/AODE/4R70W so you aren't going to be able to use the stock shafts in the first place. As well, if you try to make the adapter take up the added length then you will end up with a very expensive adapter in a place where you don't even need one. Finally, why on earth would anyone in their right mind spend hundreds of dollars in adapters to avoid something as simple as shortening or lengthening of driveshafts?

 

[410Fortune]

I dont know, and when you get into larger tires, lower gears, and crawl ratio's the stock driveshafts need some help anyways. Both mine are custom, started life as Explorer shafts, and all I have done is the 4.0L and A4LD into a BII with a D35 and a 8.8. The driveshaft mods were the easy part, probably have $400 in them with greasable slip yokes and Spicer U joints.

 

[khaw]

410??

410-- How's the A4LD holding up in you II? What kind of mods did you have to do to make it stronger? Read thru all the AOD post but didn't see much about beefing up the A4LD. IMO keeping the stock tranny, in a daily driver, is always preferable to swapping. That's as long as it can be made strong enough and reliable.

Thanks
Keith

 

[slovic]

well, sadly this thread is destined to be closed. It sounds like the bolt patterns are too large on the aod for the smaller 4.0 bolt pattern. I appologize for wishfull thinking. We are not giving up, we are working on a different option

 

[Rick]

Sorry to hear that Vic. Also, sorry I missed you at SEMA. You weren't around when I stopped by. As it is I barely got to see everything in three days

Let me know if there is anything else we can do for you.